once the stroking hand reaches 6 o’clock and the finger tips are no longer perpendicular to the floor of the pool
as shown in this video around 2:00: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODnDX-6ZkEk&feature=related
does the arm continue the stroke all the way until it’s flat (9 o’clock) with the water as the video suggests,
or do you have to start withdrawing it from the water at the 6 o’clock point?
it seems to me that the upward force that is applied to the water as the hand pushes up (from 6 o’clock to 9 o’clock)
results in sinking the feet a little and also obviously it’s not so effective since only a portion of the force is applies back and some
is wasted because it’s applied upward
what’s the recommended alternative?
please don’t give me the “people are different people and whatever works better for you” answer
Don’t look at what he’s doing on the bench, look at the actual stroke in the water, around 2:18. You can see that he rotates his hand at the end of the stroke so that it is travelling sideways, to avoid pushing upwards on the water. You never want to push upwards. Maglischo explains this in his book Swimming Fastest.
that’s the high elbow that people are talking about. so sounds right to me.
I think Steve Irwin describes what I see as well – he doesn’t do the same thing on the bench as he does in the water - hand is rotated at the end. Maglischo is a knowledgeable source, and I once heard a report of Phelps coach Bob Bowman talking in a clinic about how Michael was faster when NOT pushing back quite so far, in my read of things, the hip is a wrong target.
regards,
r.b.
The recommended alternative?
Well, for a start, don’t look at this video as anything even remotely close to gospel. Because when I watch it, I just want to bang my head against a wall. The coach teaching it might swim very well, but, as an instructor, he is completely misunderstanding what is actually going on in the water with a swimmer who has a good body position. Because nearly everything in the video that is demo’ed on elevated bench is just wrong. I see what the coach is trying to explain, but if you actually try to follow his instructions, you will do most everything wrong. I think he is simply unaware that your arm movement is not done in a vacuum, it is all done relative to a frame of reference, one’s constantly moving body. And most of that movement is not done with visual feedback, but with proprioceptor (your body’s internal joint sensors) feedback.
The video isn’t bad. It gives a pretty good demonstration of how the arm should pull. One problem is that on the swim bench, it really doesn’t address the issue of how rotation comes into play and how rotating the torso acts to help the acceleration in the middle pull phase of the stroke. The stroke finish is right too, although I’m not sure I agree that the finish is the most crucial and most powerful part of the stroke. One thing the swimmer does that he doesn’t really explain is the angle of his hand and forearm. The angle is constantly changing such that you want the hand and forearm facing straight back during the pull. You don’t swing your arm straight through the water like a pendulum. Changing the angle of the arm helps prevent up and down forces that throw off your balance and position.
The stroke finish is right too, although I’m not sure I agree that the finish is the most crucial and most powerful part of the stroke.
Your instinct is correct because research say’s that it’s not the most crucial part of the stroke, at least in terms of differentiating faster and slower swimmers.
EVF.
I think this video is great if you want to paddle a surfboard or something.
While I appreciate what he is trying to do, it sends a mixed message. The bench enforces a false rigidity to body position, which effectively changes the way the stroke looks (compared to how it should look).
And the HAIR…
I love how the guy says something along the lines of “there is no first or last phase of the stroke,” then immediately goes on to say “the first phase is…”
To directly answer your question, I don’t think it’s as bad as it seems. As you push through, while your forearm would be pushing you downwards, in effect, the palm can remain perpendicular to the body for quite a while and the forearm doesn’t do as much pushing upward against the water as it seems. I’ve often wondered this myself, and while I don’t have major body position issues, I did take the time last year to work on this aspect of my stroke.
After you reach the point where the limits of your joint mobility won’t allow you to keep your hand perpendicular, you do still get some forward thrust out of the motion, but accompanied by the downward thrust as well. The solution is to slide your hand out sideways slightly, almost as if you’re making a small karate chop. Work=F*D, so by this point in the stroke, not much power can be generated because the distance delta covered by your hand is small, and the force is small as well, the net effect on body position is minor, as is the net effect on propulsive power.