I am writing a book chapter on ethics so I have been thinking about what is\is not ethical business behavior. I noticed that in the 2004 Ironman Malaysia a husband and wife had swim times of 1:00:20 and 1:00:31. I don’t know for sure if they were working together. But, I bet they were. Since they are both experienced Ironman athletes, have been to Hawaii many times, and their performance impacts other athletes in their quest for Hawaii, do you think a man-woman team collaborating in the swim is good sportsmanship and consistent with the spirit of triathlon?
My $0.02 is that it’s not any less ethical than drafting off a total stranger in the swim. In a perfect world there would be no drafting in swimming (at least in my perfect world since I’m the world’s slowest swimmer and have no hope of holding even a water buffalo’s draft in the water) but as long as it’s within the letter of the law I see no reason why you can’t plan your draft partner in advance of the start. If someone else is going to benefit from your work, it might as well be your mate and not your competitor in you AG.
well, i’d tell you, but i’m sure you will not give me any credit in your book chapter.
If you use any of the thoughts or ideas posted in response to your question, without giving the original authors credit, that would be unethical. I’m sure you don’t need to be reminded of this, but just in case.
Swim drafting is legal. Aiding another athlete, eg, “pacing” is not. Since the latter is subject to judgment, and therefore such judgment made within the context of the entire event, then No, I don’t think it’s a break with the rules. Swim differences of a minute or two are generally immaterial in the AG ranks.
Besides, in sport, most rule breaches are not “unethical” – it is against the rules in basketball to hit another player’s arm if they have the ball. But, it’s clearly not “unethical” to do so. There is a penalty paid for the violation, and the game moves on. It’s not “unethical” to false start in swimming, but one can get DQ’d for it.
A more interesting topic in a book would be to explore the point at which a rule violation crosses from merely a “foul” into the territory of ethics. A clear example would be performance enhancing drugs. That’s both a rule violation AND it’s unethical.
Yes, swim drafting is ethical.
The deontological (principle based) argument: Kant would say that because everyone can act that way without harming anyone else, it is ethical. In fact, everyone does do it, and as long as everyone understands this drafting is fair.
The consequentialist argument: If everyone takes full advantage of the rules the outcome of the swim is generally unaffected. Regardless, since the number of winners and losers remains the same the utilitarian calculus yields a draw.
The reality of it is that I, and everyone else, drafts in the swim. When sighting I usually look up and see a line of people in front of me, each drafting off the person in front of them. The same ethics that would disallow drafting in the swim would also disallow aerobar use because of the advantage they provide.
My question was not about drafting, which we all know is within the rules. My question was about a man and woman planning before the race to draft off each other.
Yes your question is about drafting. In principle,whats the difference between your example and lets say the wife not drafting her husband but deciding “before” the race that she is going to draft someone. …Now as mentioned above,if you are talking "pacing"that may be different,but your origanal post was those two drafting one another.
Your Kant theory is correct however not everyone can draft since someone has to lead. And since there must always be a leader not everyone is able to take advantage of the draft.
Any different than a good friend of mine lining up next to me at the start line knowing that our swim times for the last umpteen races have been nearly identical so why shouldn’t he just let me do all the work and thank me as he runs by up the ramp? As of today, drafting is legal in the swim. Therefore, it’s perfectly fine to maximize that segment to one’s full advantage. Even if they came out in exactly the same same and you know they were drafting the entire race where she said: “honey, I swam NCAA Div I, and since I talked you into this and this being your first Ironman, let me tow your butt around” it wouldn’t bother me a bit. I swim with plenty of women who smoke me out of the water in lake swims but will swim a more conservative Ironman time back near me as they are more thoughtful and aware of the rest of the day while I’m amped up and going for glory on the beach. Then I blow and run 4 hours, they cruise and run sub 3:30. Hmmm, if only I’d gone more conservatively in the water?
Sorry, your assumption is circumstantial at best. No ethics issue any way you slice it.
I know this particular man-woman team and I gotta say that neither need to help each other. I also saw that they came out of the water very close to each other and my first thought was that HE musta had a great swim.
These are very experienced triathletes and good, ethical people. I can’t imagine they would use any tatics that even hinted at impropriety and, as a friend, can’t help but feel somewhat insulted for them by your insinuations.
I think you are on the wrong track here, but if you want to get it from the horse’s mouth, I can probably get them to reply personally *and *privately.
G
I don’t think AI was insinuating anything. I think he/she was just offering up a topic for discussion and your friends happend to be in a situation that fit the discussion. I could care less whether people do it or not since i don’t even really compete to win but more to finish.
My girlfriend and I train together in the pool and have pretty similar speed. Last year we left in different waves but you would be surprised how many times our splits were within 30 seconds. This year we will both be in the same wave so I expect it to get even closer. OTOH, if she starts matching my bike splits I’m calling it quits!
mobiusnc
This is no less ethical than Tim and Tony Deboom racing with each other the entire 2002? Ironman CA… Or Mark Allen pacing the entire way off Dave Scott in 1989 Ironman… Allen himself said he just shadowed Scott the entire way.
If you do a little more research on the husband/wife that you mention, you’ll find that over the last 20 races or so, at varying distances, their swim splits are usually within 45 seconds of each other, approximately 80% of the time. This occurs even if they are in separate waves and have started, literally, hours apart. For example, take a look at their swim splits from ITU worlds this past December–almost identical, and yet his wave started at 10:30 in the morning and her wave started at 1 in the afternoon. Just go to the USAT rankings website, look 'em up, check out their races, check their swim splits, and see how many times they have swim splits within seconds of each other, regardless of the fact that they start in separate waves…
Given that this husband and wife have almost identical swim speeds in most races, is it very surprising that they would end up in the same pack of swimmers at an Ironman race? I think not.
The basic point here is, if you are going to use some real life people to insinuate your ethical questions, be ethical enough yourself to research your subjects before you disparage their character, directly or indirectly.
Signed,
The Husband