Before you tell me not to worry about it, I have a pretty specific reason.
3K track pursuit. Talking about zip code of 3:30 range time-wise, and 425-475W power-wise. (lower being what I can do now at the drop of a hat, and higher being goal).
My preferred geared TT cadence @ that power comes around 90-100 RPM. My 40K TT cadence is around 80-85.
Using a typical pursuiter gear I’ve been training on, the above puts me north of 110 RPM where I’m not really happy. I’ve been trying to train myself by using that same gear in pretty fast mass start track races (sustained 34-35MPH) where my cadence is forced upwards of 120. I’m just miserable at that cadence, though it does have advantages in responding to (or creating) attacks.
I haven’t yet really done the experimentation to see if I’m really taking that much of a hit accelerating from the standing start on my preferred gearing, which would be 102-104 gear-inches.
But before I undertake that experimentation it’d be nice to know if it’s even possible to train to move my “torque/power curve” upwards in cadence without losing much. Or whether I’m better suited (particularly at my age of 44) to just making-do with my big gear and taking that 3-4 second hit (or whatever it is) on the first lap.
There’s not a ton of research on this subject that I can find. For example if it is trainable, I’d like to know whether it’s just spinning fast at any torque? Or does it have to specific training, spinning that fast at goal race torque?
I would be really interested in this too. I notice that in TT position I self select a lower cadence than on the road bike and I am not sure it’s worth to train for a higher cadence.
I think and in my experience cadence is completely trainable. I was a low to mid 90 guy but when I did my Hour Record I went to 106ish. I also train all my athletes to spin and not push even my CX racers who encounter a lot of high torque situations.
cadence is a funny thing. i was in a group ride yesterday with a former cat 1 rider, current UCI pro cross rider, and current pro triathlete. their take home for me was that my heels were not flat when on the down stroke (bahh, and i thought i was doing well) and that my cadence is too high on the climbs and that’s why i i kept getting yo yo’d.
my thoughts: i get dropped because they are stronger riders, not because of my pedaling style. i could go into a harder gearing, but i end up pushing too many watts and pay for it later.
speed is literally measured in watts when you’re climbing (or watts per kg of rider and bike combined). if both people are pushing 4w/kg up a climb, no one is going to pass the other, regardless of gearing. right?
my cadence for yesterdays ride was 92 (8.5k of climbing, 8k of climbing was done in the first 80 miles). gearing is compact front 32/11 (11 speed) rear.
didn’t mean to hijack, but also wondering about the cadence thing and whether or not i should ride a bit lower cadence (like high 80’s). i wonder how the 2 non triathletes would feel if they had to run a marathon off the bike.
It’s weird how interesting cadence gets at high power output.
I think the only answer is to test different gear ratios/cadences.
Most pursuiters tend to pedal 100+ but Graeme Obree always started of in a"huge " gear but managed two world titles.
Test and see if the bigger gear allows you to maintain your power in the last km or does the high torque start blow your legs?
the high torque always tends to blow my legs. for me, i need about 210 watts to climb a 8.4 mile climb at 5% (category 1). i averaged 91 cadence for this. had i dropped down to 85-88 i would be pushing maybe 1 ring larger, thus pushing more watts. my ftp is 218.
the reality of what they were saying is “get your ftp higher”. cus isn’t that the basis on what gears you can push?
I’ve done 6 and gradually lowered my cadence and run better - I would say I also had my best run in Wales.
Yeah, sure, I can’t know if would have run better or worse, you can never know that.
interesting… i wonder how much overall fitness (d/t years of experience) played a role in this.
i realize i spin at a higher cadence than anyone i ride with. for my general group rides, this higher cadence allows me to spin past most people on the climbs. when it comes to long century rides, i generally have a better ability to climb the inclines better than all but the studs, and i associate this with being able to spin at a slightly higher cadence, thus, not burning out. i can’t even stand on my pedals. when i do, i generally have quad spams.
i’ll probably try to do a bunch of low cadence work this winter and see if pedaling at a lower cadence will improve my cycling ability (and not affect my run as well).
I started commuting on a single speed a few years ago. 15 mile commute with some rolling hills, and in order to make it a decent workout I try to pedal the whole time other than when braking to stop (considered going fixed but do like the option of not having to pedal!). With hills and winds I find I’m regularly working hard at anything from 60 or below up to 120 or higher.
I don’t have much in the way of stats to back it up, but can say that I’m much more comfortable laying down power over a range of cadences now than I used to be when I could just self-select my cadence. Have noticed it when doing Trainerroad workouts on my turbo - I can hit target power at pretty much whatever cadence I want, and with pretty similar RPE and HR.
You just have to stick to it in training. Feels odd at first but you soon get used to it. 95 seems crazy high to me now for any distance.
When I started cycling a bit over 6 years ago I was inclined to ride with an excessively low cadence as many beginners do. I made an effort to raise it and for the first couple of years I typically rode with cadence around 90-95rpm when cruising on the flat. Over the last few years I found my cadence dropping gradually. I’ve also become a much better cyclist. I don’t think the two are necessarily linked. For the first half of this year I was training for an Alpine Granfondo that included a huge amount of climbing, and in preparation, I did a LOT of climbing in training. This paid off and I’ve become a much better climber and a stronger all-round cyclist than I’ve ever been. However, I’ve noticed that one side effect was a tendency to ride at a low cadence, often in the low to mid 70s. I was quite comfortable like this for quite long periods, although my knees ocassionally protested after a while. Idid find however, that when I consciously raised my cadence a little I was initially less comfortable but actually produced similar power and lasted longer. Now, a month after the Granfondo and back on my tri-bike I’ve become very comfortable riding with a cadence in the mid 80s and I’m riding faster and smoother than ever. So, unconciously selected cadence seems to definitely vary for me depending on the type of riding I’m doing and also my power output. My power doesn’t seem to vary dramatically with significant changes in cadence but my comfort and endurance do seem to vary somewhat. Not sure any of that is relevant or useful…but there you go
