If I put 9spd on a new bike, will I have trouble buying parts, upgrades, wheels in a few years?
Is the new DuraAce worth the upgrade? I’m not sure that 1 extra gear will make that much difference, but the new crank/BB and brakes look like improvements.
You have to look for it, but yes, you can find a six speed freewheel, you can find 27" tyres, you can even find cotton cloth bar tape. Eight speed freewheels are pretty easy to find, as well as good eight speed cassettes.
What am I trying to say? Don’t worry about it. Ultegra is going to stay as nine speed for another season, as well as 105. Eight speed is still used on lower end Shimano gruppos. I don’t think you will be faced with this problem of total obselesence for several years.
Do I think that 10 speeds on a TT/tri bike is a waste? Yes. Would I use it on a road bike? Eventually. Will I eventually cave? Only when I can’t find good replacement parts for my nine and 8 speed drivetrains, and I have a feeling that will be a long time from now.
Basically ditto to Bunnyman’s comments. I road an 8 speed shimano 600 cervelo up until last spring, when a bone head in a group ride slammed into me and shredded my derailye and cracked my frame. (still pissed) Ok back to the subject matter at hand, I was able to find all the 8 speed components I wanted through last spring which was prolly 4-5 years after the introduction of the 9 speed shimano grouppo’s. My replacement cervelo has a 9 sp group and i am not worried about finding 9 speed stuff for a long time.
good luck,
Rockfish
I hope a lot of people feel that way because I’m restoring and upgrading an old classic lugged steel frame bike as a garage project this winter. If everybody absolutely has to have 10 sp it means that their will be lots of cheap 9 sp for me to buy on ebay.
I am the first person to give new technology a chance. However, based on my EXTREMELY limited exposure to the new Shimano Dura-Ace 10 speed I am initially guarded. It may be the best thing that ever happened to companies like FSA (for their carbon cranks and bottom brackets) and Campagnolo for everything. There is continued controversy (or misinformation) over the “actual” Q factor of the new Dura-Ace 10 speed integrated crank and bottom bracket. Some sources (cyclingnews.com) report it as being 4mm wider than the '03 9 speed configuration we are accustomed to. Shimano claims it is the same. Misinformation aside, will 9 speed be obsolete? It already is. In three years parts availability will be totally sketchy. At least one U.S. distributor makes a living out of selling (at somewhat sobering prices even for a wholesaler) old school (5+ year old) Shimano components. Sure, you may be able to find the stuff in three years with a protracted search and substantial expense. My recommendation is not to buy a Dura-Ace nine speed bike right now and wait until the component storm settles.
So should I avoid the whole Shimano ‘problem’ and get Campy?
I haven’t even seen the stuff yet, but isn’t there supposed to be a lot of cross compaitibility between the new and old Dura Ace? For example, aren’t the new shifters able to work with nine speed equipment? Can’t you swap front derraileurs back and forth? If so, I don’t see how replacement parts would be a problem.
According to what I’ve read in Velonews there is substantial cross compatibility:
front and rear derailleurs are interchangable
9 speed hubs will accept 10 speed cassettes (but not vice versa)
Not sure about chainring thickness & spacing. However, the owner from the LBS here has seen the new group, apparently the 10 chain is similar in width to the 9 chain, except with flush rivets. I would suspect that 9 or 10 chainrings will be interchangeable.
Assuming that there are no 9 speed DA parts available anywhere next year, most bits should be served by the 10 speed equivalent. Exceptions will be:
Bottom Bracket - alternative use ultegra or 105
Cassette - use ultegra or 105
Brifters - use ultegra or upgrade
Hubs - use ultegra, upgrade to 10, or aftermarket wheels (maybe). Depends on how quickly the aftermarket wheel guys switch spline patterns to 10 speed. I wouldn’t expect that they change until Shimano is totally 10 speed, at least down to the 105 level.
8 speed stuff is easy to find
http://www.performancebike.com/shop/Profile.cfm?SKU=1421
http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=87&subcategory=1109&brand=&sku=2935&storetype=&estoreid=
Its prolly 5 years since the 9 speed stuff first came out. I do not expect my LBS to carry the older 8 speed stuff it in stock, since they need to sell the lateset gizmo’s and I am confident with their thin profit margins like Tom refers too, they cannot hang on to inventory that is goind to take 6 months to turn.
But you can find em on line rather effortlessly.
Rockfish
Shimano’s innovation is impressive, no doubt. The question is, when are ‘improvements’ made for truly better function and when are they made to make a product just slightly different (and possibly incompatible with) with previous versions of the product? For example STI/dual control levers are really a great innovation, and compare to the quick-release and rear derailleur in terms of how much they affected and improved riding.
However 10 friggin’ cogs (compared to 9) is not nearly in this class. On another topic, the 4 mm greater width of the new cranks is not too surprising, because if one looks at the design of the new cranks and BB, the placement of BB bearings outside(!) of the BB shell would mean a huge squeeze–a large hollow crank and bearing unit must entirely fit between your pedal and the edge of the BB shell.
Also, who is the U.S. distributor that makes a living selling old Shimano parts? I am looking for a bunch of stuff that has been difficult to hunt down. I would like to get some parts that the LBS has had a hard time locating and would like to suggest to them where to look. Thanks.
same here!
I bought a shimano 600 equiped Principia 8 years ago. 13 Ironman races later I still used it for Ironman CDA and ILP this year. Over all those years I had one bad day where I had two flats on a very rough course at Ironman California. Otherwise my beloved racebike never had any trouble in any race, never.
That’s what I call proven technology. One cog more won’t make you a faster triathlete but trouble with new stuff which is not yet tested by thousands of people, will make you a lot slower!
Have you tried finding any Campy 8 speed Ergopower levers lately? 8 speed Shimano STI levers have been available for the last several years and Shimano is even introducing a NEW 8 speed lever for 2004.
Not to mention the fact that old Campy 9 derailleurs don’t work with new Campy 9 levers. And vice-versa.
And then there’s that whole lockring thing.
Campy definitely has some good selling points, but cross compatibility is NOT one of them.
We have had very good experiences for over 10 years with Euro-Asia Imports in La Crescenta, California. Their phone number is (818) 248-1814. They have done an excellent job of maintaining an inventory of such unusual items as 8 speed Shimano Dura-Ace FREEWHEELS (not cassette cogs, old school freewheels- remember those?). Their prices are fair considering the unusual nature of the stuff they have. We have consistently used them as a “problem solver” distributor for hard to find, older equipment. They almost always come through and their customer service is beyond compare. For other retailers (Euroasia is a wholesale distributor to bicycle retail stores) I recommend them as an excellent resource.
Don’t we all remember saying why would one need 6 cogs? And then a few years later 7, then 8, then 9. I can’t wait for 10 to get back the 16T cog in the middle of the stack. I also recall when STI first came out and everyone was shocked with the expense and ‘what if you crash’ yet that’s what all of us have on our road bikes these days. What do you mean I can set it to friction? Use your current stuff until it dies and then get the new stuff. There will be plenty of 9spd around for years. If you are nervous, grab and extra cogset and a few chains. Heck, I have a mix of ULT/DA 8spd stuff now on a cyclocross bike that refuses to die after 10 years of solid use.
For the person building up the old steel lugged bike, any thoughts of going totally retro with a Campy super record group? When I need a little soul recharge, out comes the old Mavic SSC group with simplex shifter equiped Vitus Carbone9. 7spd. Makes one savor the good old days, and embrace the new technology of the future.
From a bike racing/neutral support stand-point I’d recommend waiting one more year. The premium will wear off and the rest of the pack will get equipped for the 2005 season. Until then, us racers are a cheap bunch who want to ride stuff into the ground unless we get it for free.
Absolutely not. I have 7speed (cassette) on my road bike and 8spd on the race bike, there is no problem finding parts for either of these. 7 speed cassettes are still readily available, 8 speed chainrings and chains work fine with 7 speed. The shifters are DT, but even those are still available at Third Hand for $30 or so. It’s been over ten years since 7spd was SOTA, and there’s still no problem getting any of the parts.
The only thing that tempts me to upgrade to 9spd for the race bike is the 105 13-23 cassette, which has all the cogs from 13 to 19, then 21, 23. That would be nice to have, I spend more than a bit of time in races working between 15 and 17…
Man, I must be a dinosaur. I’m still on 8 speed with downtube shifters on my Kestrel 200 SC. My 10 year old components refuse to die. I put ~8000-10000K on the bike per year and this stuff is bomb proof. I’m not sure what I would do with 9 or 10 speed. I did the 90K ride at the Tupper Lake Half Ironman in 2:23 (2:26 with two transitions tacked on) and even on a “hilly course”, I did the whole ride in the big chainring, so I only used 7 gears (I never went “big to big”). I should have just toasted the small chainring, chainring shifters and front derailleur to “lighten up my bike”, but I may have pulled a “David Miller” and lost my chain at some point or another !
My point is that I agree with bunnyman and others, that all these extra gears on most TT/tri courses are superfulous. I can see the utility for road racing, but for tris, a few gears is really all you need except for the hilliest courses like the Brad Kearns “World Toughest Half”, Nice or Zofingen.
No one if forcing you to upgrade, so if you buy 9 speed today and take care of your bike, the stuff can easily last 50,000 - 80,000K (assuming you change you chain at the recommended intervals).
On that note, anyone looking to ditch some 8 speed STI shifters after having upgraded to 9 or 10 speed can ship to me, and I will put them on my Kestrel 200 SC “moving museum”. The Kestrel 200 frame is 4 years seasons old, but my original was 10 seasons old, when it was kindly replaced by Kestrel on their Lifetime Warranty program. Not bad. I paid for a frame in 1990 and continue to ride for the same initial outlay today :-). I figure that is around 120,000 km for ~$2000 CDN or ~ 16 cents per K 
Heck i am still on freewheels 7 speed, on my newest bike it has a 9 speed wheel with 7 speeds on it,I am sick over how fast the new parts come out,when you have trispokes and discs you hate to see the end of there life because of Shimanos plan to have us on 12 speeds one day
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another great example of the whole “gotta have the best/ newest/ fastest/ lightest/ shiniest gadgets” syndrome that we triathletes are so susceptible to. i’m also amongst the people still using 8 speeds. have never used more. have never needed to. when i go to a race i usually have a rough idea as to the course and select my chainrings/ cassette accordingly and have yet to suffer a case of “i wish i had more gears”. like bunnyman pointed out earlier, have you ever actually paid attention to how many of your gears you actually use during the course of a race? not likely the whole range of an 8-speed cassette (let alone a 9 or a 10!) it seems to be overkill to me. from a business standpoint, however, if you’re a company (like shimano for example) and you’ve perfected your current line (and most people already own it), you had sure better come up with something new to buy if you want to keep making money. if you find a nice bike you like and it fits you well and you want it, i think you’d be a fool not to buy it just because it has a 9 speed group vs. a 10.