Typically, how much slower should the IM marathon be than an open marathon given the bike and swim weren’t over-done. I run a 3:15 marathon, how fast should I shoot for in the IM. Post your open/IM marathon times guys and gals.
It really depends on a number of factors. In the parkball of 20-40 minutes, but I’ve seen top gun runners (sub 2:40) come in at 4:30…
I’ve only run 2 open marathons and my best is 2:32. My ironman marathon splits have been 3:29 at IMC, 3:18 in Roth, 3:12 at IMFL and 3:15 in Kona but if I can get my nutrition bang on I know that I’ve got a sub 3:00 ironman split in my legs on the right day!
PR marathon alone 3:35, PR IM marathon 4:02
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Cripes - those are some pretty fine times!
3:15 stand alone = 3:54 IM pace, assuming similar courses.
I would post this over on Gordo’s forum if I were you. http://www.coachgordo.com/forum2/upload/index.php . I believe the more conditioned you are, the closer to your open marathon time you will be. I think Gordo hits the nail on the head by saying that IM athletes do not get enough steady state training. I believe Gordo is around a 33’ 10k runner which would place him in the ballpark of an open marathon time of about 2’36’. As many are aware, he typically completes the IM marathon in 2’46’. Pretty damn good hey?!?! I think you would find Dave Scott would be the same. Perhaps even Peter Reid. I am guessing Peter Reid is no faster than a 32’ 10k runner (fast - but not what most people would guess for someone that is seen as the runner in the sport of triathlon). The fact is, these athletes have mastered the art of training for IM.
This means that if you train properly you should be able to do a 3’27’ ish IM marathon.
Friel says to add 20% to your open time in “Triathletes Training Bible”. So 3:15 becomes 3:54. I think the other posters are right about doing the right training. Training for a marathon and then doing one after 112 miles of biking is completely different than training for 112 miles of biking followed by a marathon.
Last december I did 3:51 in my only marathon to date. I’m working on running a lot this year, and my goal is to better than in Wisconsin.
-Colin
IM Marathon PR = 3:18 (IMF '03)
Stand Alone Marathon PR = 3:05 (NYC '02)
For me I believe I could/should be running faster stand alone marathons but feel my fitness level going into IM is much higher. Assuming I approached a stand alone marathon with the same vigor as an IM, maybe I could go faster. I primarily care about running well off the bike so I may never know!
Marathon PR 2:47, IMLP Maraton 3:29. But I agree with previous posts of proper training getting you closer to stand alone times. I do not have the training part down yet. I think this may be the most frustrating part of IM training.
I agree with about 1/2 hour give or take.
9/02 IMMOO - 3:25, 11/02 NYC - 2:57
9/04 IMMOO - 3:47, 11/04 NYC - 3:23
So how do you really train for an Ironman run if everyone suggests long bike days followed by only 30-60 minutes of running?
Do you ever bike lets say 80 miles followed by a 10 mile run during training?
It seems like my Ironman run training is less than when I train for a marathon.
Average week Ironman run training
Wed - speed/hills/intervals/ - 8-9 miles
Sat - Brick - 90 mile ride / 45 minute run
Sun - LSR - 13-18 miles between 2hr-2.5hrs
Is that enough running?
Before I come across as “the person to ask” let me say that I have not done an IM yet - but I avidly read Gordo’s training advice pages and he is one guy that has improved like nobody else I can think of and is definitely one of the best IM runners. I think for the person that cannot put in the optimal amount of training that adding half an hour to the stand alone marathon times may be realistic. But individuals like Gordo, Dave Scott, Peter Reid etc have shown that you can indeed get much closer than most people imagine to their stand alone marathon times. Gordo really advises that frequency is very important for run training. He advises a minimum of 6 runs a week if I remember correctly. When I read the training logs of many people who post on this forum, it seems they are well under 6 runs a week.
2006 will be my year for giving IM a go. I have jacked up my running over the past 2 months and I run every day for a minimum of 1 hour. It works out to a minimum of 90 km a week. I have a gut feeling this year will be a breakthrough year for me with running and will prepare me well for next years IM’s. (Just my take on it)
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It’s really tough to make comparisons as others have pointed out these are two different kinds of running. You start a marathon fresh. You start an IM run with the fatigue of 112 miles and 2.4 miles of swimming in your body!
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Some will say it’s all about the bike others will say it’s all about the run. The reality is that you need to have good balance in the two to do “well”.
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Race day pacing of the bike is critical to having a solid run. Many go too fast on the bike and the run becomes a death-march - the Kona Shuffle as they say.
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My feeling is that there is a strong correlation between historically, over the course of a number of years, the pace that you have spent the most time running at and your best IM race pace. ie over the course of 4 years you have spent most of your time running at close to 8:00 min/mile then your best possible IM race poace would be about 8:00 or a 3:30 IM marathon.
Fleck