Road Bike or tri Bike for Ironman France? MOP in 50-55 age group and can’t find any info on bike course, profile etc.
Information about the bike course is presented on the official website of IM France, http://www.ironmanfrance.com/indeximfr.htm . A lot of climbing and technical descendings. I rode my road-bike when I did this course, not totally satisfied, so if I should repeat this course I would be on my tri-bike. Go for a light setup no matter of what bike you chose.
/CE
Quick question. Do the descents have lots of switchbacks? I’m a pretty decent technical descender, however, I don’t want to have to worry about heating up a rim in 35C heat on the Cote d’Azur and melting the glue on my wheels and rolling a tubular Beloki style. If there are a lot of switch back descents with rims heating up, I’m going to look into borrowing a pair of clincher wheels for this race.
Dev
A few answers:
a) yes there are a number of switchbacks on this descent. Some of them quite terrifying. Think movie car chase “cliff up on one side, cliff down on the other side”. You have to descend aggressively or you will be there all day. be sure to a) ride clinchers and b) practice RIDING THE DESCENTS BEFOREHAND- you can do this early in the morning, using a chase-car as a blocker so you dont get murdered by the cars. MOST of the switchbacks are capable of being taken at full speed, but you need to ride it ahead to figure out which ones are which.
b) for most athletes, this is a 6+ hour bike course, which divides up this way: 1 hour totally flat, 2 hours very long nonstop climb, 1 hour stunning ripping descent, 1 hour totally flat (and windy).
c) i would suggest a tri bike BUT WITH COMPACT CASSETTE. You will want your tri bike for the two long flat sections, but you absolutly have to use extra low gearing for the climbs. While the climbs are not that steep, they are freaking ENDLESS. I would suggest tri bike. compact cassette, 27 tooth rear cogs.
d) get ready for a very physical swim. For reasons i dont understand, the european races seem to feature a lot more physical contact during the swims, so be ready for it. People open push/shove/hit in the middle of the scrum.
It all depends, do you care if you are 20 to 25 minutes slower in the race?? IF not, ride the road bike, in fact ride it in every race you do if time does not matter. If I did not care about my time, I would be on a road bike, sitting up on the hoods the whole way, taking in the scenery. But for me it is a race, so I do what is going to get me to the beer tent the fastest…ANd just for the record, there is NO course you should ride a road bike on if you care about your time. At least of the 500+ ones I have done. I suppose if the ride started at the bottom of Al’duez and finished at the top, but I have not done that race…
Hey, thanks for the input. I was going to go with 34x25 on 700’s but will put on a 27 to save legs for the run. I’ll get clinchers for this…no desire to do a Beloki. I’m pretty good at switchbacks, but hopefully can get out on the descents (3 hours into bike), with other good descenders.
Dev
I would emphasize the idea of trying to either ride or drive the descents ahead of time- there are some blind corners that can be taken at all out speed, but you can only know by doing them ahead of time. This is second most technical course ive done- only monaco is more technical, and that is technical to the point of being comic.
The conditions of the pavement are really bad at some parts of the course, pot holes and so on. The course was mentally demanding because you had to stay extremly focused on the pavement all the time. I was riding 39x25 as lowest gear, worked fine for me.
/CE
I have done the old Nice Long Distance, the first edition of the IM in Nice and last year again. The course has changed a lot over the iterations: it’s a lot less challenging. It’s now flat for about 20km, a sharp short climb (300m?), then a drag followed by the main climb, not steep but long enough. There is another short climb later, but most of the climbing is done in the first third. I’m not a very strong climber and a 39 + 25 is fine, 27 if you really want to make sure you have a spare gear. The descents are technical in part but there are only a handful of switchback, but then I would like to see somebody take them “at full speed”. I’m talking about the proper switchbacks, not the bends and corners. Then the last part of the ride is flat or slightly downhill and often against the sea wind. Checking the course before is definitely recommended. I would use a TT bike without hesitation with 53/39 & 12-25. The course demands some attention all along, and nutrition/hydration can be tricky if you don’t find the right time to eat/drink (it’s generally hot).
Swim: I agree with clyde_s_dale on this point. The sea is large, so is the beach, but it’s a fight at least until the first buoy.
Run is 4 laps completely flat but with no shade at all (maybe 200m toward the airport) and you can see the finish line from about 4.5km. Can be mentally tough.
For what it’s worth, this was my first Ironman last June. The bike is the most beautiful unforgettable ride you might ever have. I live in Kansas - so it was unlike anything I had seen. You will love it. Just realize that it’s super “technical”, I can’t remember any of the course that was perfectly "straight, or that flat really. The Garmin recorded 11,000 feet of overall climbing. I rode a 21lb Felt B12 with 53/39 on the front, 12/27 on the back and mavic carbone clinchers. I never labored that much. I rode extremely slow just to enjoy the ride and did fine with that gearing. I was only in the aero position a few times. I regretted not bringing my lighter Roubaix instead, but either bike works. Most europeans there are fantastic cyclists, and they ride basic VERY light road bikes. A plus for the road bike - it would be nice to have more “hand positions” on the long decents because your hands and forearms WILL cramp. My decision was based on long rides at home - the road bike put my hands and feet asleep, the tri bike is a perfect fit and I felt great after the 112 miles. If you don’t care about times, go with the most comfortable ride. You still have 26 miles to run when you hop off the bike. Other notes - my swim was not at all physical and I was in the back of the “slowest stall” and finished 1:15 in 1499th place. No one was “kicking” in front of me. Lot’s of traffic to the second bouy for me, then thins out a lot. Also, realize the marathon is perfectly flat and comfortable along a topless beach. Not often a great view - but every now and then you got a treat. I finished in 13:50 which I was fine with, and got to stick around an enjoy the area afterwards for a few days without being in pain. Enjoy every minute of it. If I had another $4K, I’d go back and do it again.
Resurrecting an old thread:
I’m doing IM France in June. Sold my TT bike last year, so I will be riding my CAAD9 (normal road bike). Should I ride my normal road position with clip-ons (pretty comfortable and aero, but tight hip angle in the aero bars), or should I put on a zero-setback seatpost and push the saddle all the way forward? I know performance on the flat sections will improve with a steeper position. Just don’t know how much time I will spend in the aero bars. (I’m a decent cyclist, and comfortable in both positions.)
This was my first Ironman last June as well. I didn’t have a tri-bike at the time, so rode on my “very road” Serotta with clip-ons. Even with the option of the bars I was rarely in them, with the exception of the first and last 20 miles. I think I would probably still go for my road bike should I do it again, but lighter wheels would have been wise. The decent is VERY technical. I’m not the most experienced bike handler, and am limited to what’s available here in SoCal. A couple of the hairpins I felt like I should almost unclip (!) but made it around the extremely tight turn at about 8-9mph. Yeah, like I said…not the best decender. If you’re good at this it probably evens the playing field a bit, but I had one idiot crash about 25 feet in front of me going too fast. Almost took me out. He was on a tribike and was riding (decending) way beyond his skill level. Just this slow age grouper’s take. It was an EPIC ride though. By far the most epic ride I’ve ever done. Stunning.
And the coke on the course is the best ever. 
Thanks. I’m kinda leaning towards a road setup with very minimalist aero bars: Deda clips without the elbow pads. (Yes, that’s right, I’m gonna be resting my underarms directly on the handlebar top.)
I did France last year and doing it again this year. I used my road bike (Cervelo soloist) with clip on aero bars. I live in the flatlands so I feel much more comfortable descending on a road bike. I figure I would be a little faster on the Tri bike but in my case this is a 6:50 bike course, so does it really matter! I’m there to have some fun and really enjoy the area, not so much Nice but I find the area around it stunning.
First of all: I never rode the IM France course. But I do know the French Alps/Pyrenees very well. I use both of my bikes - road/tri - in these areas. It is all very doable with my tri bike and a compact cassette. Nevertheless in my opinion you can feel the difference. The tri bike is at its best when going fast in aero position with not that much cornering on the course (steering, bike handling). Watch the bikes at short course tri races: road bikes!
I have a better riding position and less fatique when doing the long climbs (f.e. Mnt Ventoux) with my road bike and fast descends feel more in control and secure.
It certainly is doable on a tri bike but sometimes descending in a more forward position is not always a treat. You have to get used to that kind of feeling and learn how your bike reacts in these circumstances.
I admit I’m always doubting before races too. I did use my Specialized Transition with compact in UK 70.3 a few years ago (great!) and I’ll probably prefer it for the TriStar111 Mallorca. Why? Because I think those courses give me enough rolling hills and semi-flats to benefit from my aerobars.
Good luck with all your preps for IM France and don’t forget your sunscreen! It’s blistering hot in June and you’re racing at altitude. Getting a serious sunburn during the race will not help you in any way.
Save training,
Kaikala
Thanks for sharing all that info. What is the elevation for the run? and do you think that tubulars are a bad idea? I was going to go with my tri bike, with 404 tubulars and road drop bars with clip on aero bars.
I don’t know the IM course in France, but can give some advice about racing and bike geometry.
In terms of handling/descending, your tri bike may be good enough depending on who makes it and the geometry they use. Parlee, for example, seems to make a TT bike that is really designed to handle well. Cervelos, on the other hand, seem to excel in a straight line, but don’t want to carve through corners like a road bike due to the ‘interesting’ handling geometry (head angle, fork rake, BB drop, front-center, and rear-center - 60mm BB drop and 380 chainstays are a bad place to start, I’d need about a 38 rake fork to have a prayer of feeling confident on one).
If you have a tri bike with good geometry (parlee, focus Izalco chrono, felt DA/b2, etc.) then you could change up your position a bit (move your saddle back a cm or so and drop it a touch) and use a drop bar for extra speed on the descents so that you can corner and counter-steer optimally. This is good if you will sit up when you climb most of the time, it is a setup that favors climbers with slower cadences and more power.
If you have a tri bike with good geometry and you spin up the climbs and can stay in the aero position while you do this, then skip the drop bars and try to take all the aero advantage that you can.
If you don’t feel like you can rail your tri bike around the corners, then think about a road bike. Never underestimate how much being tense can take out of you. If you’re going to be white-knuckling and fighting your bike for half the course, it’s not an advantage no matter how aero it is.
Counter to what someone said about a Beloki and using clinchers, you will probably be better off with tubulars. Just do a serious road glue job on them, not an “I may need to tear this off mid-race if I flat, and I don’t really need to corner much at all so 2 layers of glue will do” gluing. Tubular rims and tires are better able to handle the changes that come with extreme braking. And - Beloki aside - you are more likely to be able to keep a bike up if you flat a tubular on a technical section (the people that I’ve talked to (TdF mechanics) say Beloki flatted first, then rolled his tire - but I don’t know anyone who could flat on a full-switchback at stage-leading TdF speeds and keep it upright). If clinchers were really better in this regard, wouldn’t every ProTour team use them in the mountains? I’d ride some 404 FC wheels on a course like France, or a 404 F and 808 R.
Watch the bikes at short course tri races: road bikes!
not the ones winning
I honestly think both would be fine on the Nice course. On one hand the 20 km or so in and out of Nice are very flat and fast. On the other hand the rest of the course is all ups and downs with long moderate uphills and fast, twisty descents. Unless you know the course extremely well, you will have to constantly get out of your aerobars as most turns have no visibility.
Most pros will be on road bikes. Many faster age groupers will be on tri bikes.
Edit to add: did the race in 2008 on a tri bike, 5:28 bike split.
I did IM France in 2009 (w/ a 6:30 bike split)
FWIW: Definitely take a tri bike over a road bike. I agree with everyone who says that the course is no longer that technical. The climbs are long and moderate, so you probably won’t be in your aerobars, but there is plenty of flats/false flats to make the tri bike worth it.
Also, the descents are not that bad. There are a couple turns/ switchbacks that you should be aware of, but other than that, it’s not too technical. If you can, pre-ride the second part of the course (the descents) and you’ll feel much more confident come race day.
I had my tri bike (Leader frame), and the only piece of advice I would offer is have the appropriate gearing. I had a 39x25 as my smallest gear, and there were many times when I would have been much happier with a compact instead.
Other than that, enjoy the race! I had a great time (except for the swim start. I got the crap beaten out of me!)