It sounds like the solution but I think it makes the problem even worse and puts too many in danger of injury.
You’re right, it’s a format wide problem and not specific to any one race.
Far too many athletes are being allowed to enter these races, 2000+ athletes on course at the same time is always going to lead to situations like this.
I often wonder if the standard format for IMs should be to hold them over a weekend and have half (or possibly slightly over half) of the current number on course each day.
I’d stay away from having a mens’ and womens’ day, and instead would alternate AGs in each gender.
Sat:
M18-24
F25-29
M30-34…
Sun:
F18-24
M25-29
F30-34…
The MPROs would race one day, the FPROs the other.
2 days with of permits
2 days worth of cops
2 days worth of medics
2 days worth of volunteers.
Yea, this will never happen.
you can look at every single year and i could easily find 10+ picture of each year drafting. While you might have been able to race clean, not everyone make this choice.
And this is the reality of our sport. Those big drafting races sells out very quickly as many athletes are driven by the idea of a fast time. I see it constantly with athletes wanting to pick fast courses. While publicly, many talk a different game, when it come time for action, very few keep there high morality.
here’s 2013 cozumel video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iarfCT1eyws not sure where this was taken?
In the end, my point is, it s very easy with a short clip or pictures to make it look like a dirty race. But we have to be carefull as this only say a small part of the story. And almost everyone says they are against drafting…but when given the chance to up on the train to get a fast time…the dream of bragging right and been able to claim a extra fast time to prove there social superiority is a very strong dark force… Many are guilty!
not pointing fingers to anyone. just been realistic.
Course with reduce participant or multiday event would perhaps be a option. or some space out waves on single loop courses…
I picked South Africa, Texas, Whistler and Tahoe this year 
Even you’d think Texas might become a mess, but it is actually really clean with the rolling start, wide roads and strong wind. The others, my times ranged from 5:39 to 5:56…I ride 5:20ish at Kona.
that’s one way to think of it.
but i’d be afraid to have triathletes draft off of me.
many aren’t very good cyclists to begin with. there is very little to no group riding taught with triathletes.
as a road cyclist now tri - im often quite shocked by the lack of skills that many triathletes possess on the bike.
So start training on drafting out of the gate - that needs to start from early on or NO on drafting.
You’re right, it’s a format wide problem and not specific to any one race.
Far too many athletes are being allowed to enter these races, 2000+ athletes on course at the same time is always going to lead to situations like this.
I often wonder if the standard format for IMs should be to hold them over a weekend and have half (or possibly slightly over half) of the current number on course each day.
I’d stay away from having a mens’ and womens’ day, and instead would alternate AGs in each gender.
Sat:
M18-24
F25-29
M30-34…
Sun:
F18-24
M25-29
F30-34…
The MPROs would race one day, the FPROs the other.
2 days with of permits
2 days worth of cops
2 days worth of medics
2 days worth of volunteers.
Yea, this will never happen.
I agree. Not realistic.
Just a day dream
I have to also say after doing three really tough races this year and a slow humid flatter one, I would like to do one easier course next year where I start the run 45 min earlier with less TSS in the legs and be able to run faster and finish the race an hour earlier. Ironman is hardd enough and doing races as much as an hour longer is tough. I can see the attraction of a flat course just to get done quicker. But it can always be done by letting the packs go, but you have to let KQ and age group position go too.
They did a great job at IM Coz in 2014 with wave starts, allowing people to ride in 4 lanes and lots of marketing for riding fair. I witnessed the odd small group, one lady in pink blatantly drafting but overall the race was fair.
I think this example shows if Athleten want to ride fair, and organizers try, youcan have a good race in a 3 lap course.
Agree. As a mop swimmer and fop bike/run I basically need to race a tough course to qualify or give up that goal and do something easier where my time will be much better and effort required much less, but my ranking will be quite different than the tough course.
The best courses i have done that make the bike fair are Lake Placid, South African and even IMTX seemed to be quite a fair race for some reason even though its pretty flat for the most part.
Kona is one of the worst I find now. I often see people I have been faster at in a qualifier like LP who go 20mins+ faster in kona than me which seems mainly due to the bike benefit it seems as its been a consistent theme over the years I have raced.
I would like to get that PB down though having never done the super fast courses yet !
Jonathan qualify post with pictures.
Get rid of the drafting rules.
And get rid of lots of racers. I did draft legal bike racing for many years, and switched to triathlon in order to race “TT style”. I just don’t want to participate in a style of racing that really necessitates teamwork. I want my individual effort to be factor that decides my fate.
If triathlon went generally draft legal, I’d go back to bike racing… I know many who feel the same. My solution is to only participate in smaller races, preferably with harder courses. No WTC races; ever.
Agree. As a mop swimmer and fop bike/run I basically need to race a tough course to qualify or give up that goal and do something easier where my time will be much better and effort required much less, but my ranking will be quite different than the tough course.
The best courses i have done that make the bike fair are Lake Placid, South African and even IMTX seemed to be quite a fair race for some reason even though its pretty flat for the most part.
Kona is one of the worst I find now. I often see people I have been faster at in a qualifier like LP who go 20mins+ faster in kona than me which seems mainly due to the bike benefit it seems as its been a consistent theme over the years I have raced.
I would like to get that PB down though having never done the super fast courses yet ! I have never done a “really fast course”…only done Penticton, LP, Whistler, Tremblant, Texas, Kona, Nice, South Africa, Tahoe". Texas and Kona are the flattest courses I have done. I would actually like to do something easier some time soon like Arizona or Barcelona, but I have to just go do these races to get a fast time than age group placement. If you do a flat race for age group placement, then you basically have to draft with the density that WTC is putting on the road. i do believe if you can get it down to around 1 athlete per second entering the water, the exit can be clean. As I said, in Tahoe, the first 2 hours there is plenty of chance to draft if the course is congested enough, but it was clear sailing as the congestion was zero. In Tremblant for example, there is plenty of chance to draft the first 2 hours and that’s exactly what goes on (even though the course has 6000 ft of vertical). It really pisses me off and this year, sadly I did not do it, even though it is barely 100 miles from home and is the BEST IM production in the entire sport as far as I have seen. I did not go partly because I cared about placement. My placements in Texas are always better than Tremblant and arguably Tremblant should have less drafting, but it’s tight over there and has more. Part of it is only having 1 lane for all those riders. Give us 2 lanes and it really breaks up.
I’ll probably go back to Tremblant soon though with no illusion of placement. I am eyeing Barcelona and Arizona, both because I just want to do an easy course finally (31 IM’s later, I have not done a super fast one yet…and yes, I would like to have a “fast time” just once in my life (for my age). I’ll just drop back and let the groups go. If I am going to try for a fast time, then it’s really a TT with myself to see how fast I can get on a flat course (and maybe I go slower than hill…) and then the position is the position. My half IM PB back in the day on flat course (Ottawa Canadian half IM) was 4:23. I did a 4:14 at Esprit, but its short and continuous slingshot so I don’t really count that as my true PB. I THINK if I can go 11:22 at Tahoe I can get under 10:20 on fast course at 50+. Maybe I am dillusional, but I’d like to try and just let the groups go. Potentially ending the bike with 50 points less TSS than say Tahoe or Nice without drafting for a much faster overall race time out of T2 is appealing, just to run a “non survival run”.
Ken Glah still has “entry only slots to IM Florida”…ok forget that thought, I better save it for next year. 4 this year is enough.
maybe the sport would get rid of a few racers in the short-term. I’m sure it would turn a corner sooner than most would think and numbers would be right back up or better.
Call a spade a spade: Ironman and most other triathlon races have become a gran fondo style event. You have all levels of racers/participants on the same course, same time, doing multiple lap races and - what do you know - drafting. End the drafting prohibition for everyone’s sake. A lot of people would be safer on road bikes anyway.
ETA: It would be cool to have an Elite/Pro class that does have a smaller, enforceable field of racers have their own non-draft racing series. Maybe you can “cat-up” from gran fondo style racing to the non-draft, if you so chose. but that’s a whole 'nother thing.
Natasha was very much in group like this. One of my young 21 year old athlete rode pass her very early into the bike (he is a age grouper) and rode 4:35. he said it was very congested and almost impossible to stay out of draft zone. He is a strong rider and didn’t like the outcome of the race.
But once again, this isnt a barcelona only issue…
Kona: 
Brazil :
IMCDA 
This makes me throw up in my mouth. Why do people insist on racing MDOT with over 2000 people? I’m a legit MOP, and just rode 112 miles with no one within eyesight ahead or behind me at Cedar Point. In 5 hours and 30 minutes, I made one pass and was passed twice. It was the most satisfying ride of my life.
Get rid of the drafting rules.
At least get rid of the aerobars. Somebody is going to get speared!
Call a spade a spade: Ironman and most other triathlon races have become a gran fondo style event
In the case of Ironman, I agree. WTC races are, for age groupers, essentially draft legal; little enforcement, lax penalties, a general attitude that drafting is not “illegal” but a risk/reward trade-off.
The alternative: just DONT race WTC races. It is really a great trade. You pay half the entry fee. Get 1/2 or fewer racers on the course. Generally better drafting enforcement. No need to make all races draft legal.
But if WTC wanted to go draft legal, that would be fine with me. For all practical purposes, they already are draft legal, and I don’t do their races, so no change for me…
Oh by the way, I see how RUDY PROJECT wins the helmet count at KONA…LOL!!! Did they give out the free helmets and say, “and get on the Queen K and sit in the train to Hawi…”
maybe the sport would get rid of a few racers in the short-term. I’m sure it would turn a corner sooner than most would think and numbers would be right back up or better.
Call a spade a spade: Ironman and most other triathlon races have become a gran fondo style event. You have all levels of racers/participants on the same course, same time, doing multiple lap races and - what do you know - drafting. End the drafting prohibition for everyone’s sake. A lot of people would be safer on road bikes anyway.
ETA: It would be cool to have an Elite/Pro class that does have a smaller, enforceable field of racers have their own non-draft racing series. Maybe you can “cat-up” from gran fondo style racing to the non-draft, if you so chose. but that’s a whole 'nother thing.
Yep.
I think Mexico does not allow TT bars at their DL races. I see nothing wrong with making this the rule as most DL races have. The one I race next weekend
does allow TT bars and has never had an issue. But, if their were 2000 folks, well, …
I raced in San Diego a few weeks ago. Same thing, course way too crowded. My bib fell off on the run so I tucked it into my top. After the race I see I received a penalty for “no race number”. Ok whatever, but was interesting is when I asked for the penalty report there were 3 race number penalties and only 1 drafting penalty. I even emailed the official where he said the course was “too crowded” and the RD would need to look into that for next year. I watched countless people draft, but the official managed 1 penalty for something that affects the race outcome and 3 for something that doesn’t. That’s lazy officiating IMO.
Oh by the way, I see how RUDY PROJECT wins the helmet count at KONA…LOL!!! Did they give out the free helmets and say, “and get on the Queen K and sit in the train to Hawi…”
When I raced there in 2013, you could get a Helmet and glasses for something like £50, so no surprise they won the helmet count.
At Kona it seems to be accepted that in the first 20k of the bike there will be drafting due to the volume of racers coming out out the swim around 1:00-1:10, but that after that they do seem to enforce the drafting quite strictly. Compare that with Austria where even after 20k you get massive packs and little enforcement. When I did it a massive contingent from Mexico seemed to ride in one big pack around the entire course without penalty. That really was a sportive ride.
I think an approach like Kona would be a good way forward with a lenient approach for the first 20k to reflect the fact that it’s impossible not to technically draft, and then really enforce it properly, although I think this would be a bit of a culture shock for many.
I’m sure there’s a pretty easy technological way to monitor drafting using the timing matts and correlating data between mats placed fairly close, I.e. 3 mats 1k apart should allow you to tell who is riding in a group. However, I’m not sure WTC would want to start DQ’ing large numbers of their paying customers, so I don’t think this is going to happen.
Dev: figure out a way to do Barcelona. It’s a beautiful course and the community is great for spectators.
To bx3 and others - yes there were certainly some packs of riders. But photos are often very bad for looking at drafting. Telephoto lens shots (which are very likely in this context) compress the objects you see, making them appear much closer together.
Not saying everyone rides clean but pictures make it look way worse than it really is.