Thanks for your experience. Since I never swam until 49, I never got burned out from swimming, but I also never got
the technique, and never will. But, has I have gotten better at swimming, my overall race times have gotten better.
Folks keep telling me they have seen a huge change in my times from the past. Now, if I had not swam, they would be asking
what drugs I was taking.
I also totally agree with you an aerobic base and how hard swimming can be. When we do our sprint workouts in Masters,
I NEVER work this hard on the bike or run! And when we do the 5/7/9 stoke breathing, it kills me. But, after this stuff,
running hard seems easy!!
All I will say Aztec is that if anyone deserves to be fast at swimming it is you. I’ve never seen anyone analyze swimming quite as much as you do.
Swimming is by far the most interesting of the 3 disciplines. Now if only my 8-15K per week made any difference at all!! It hasn’t, thus my poking around to find out if more ALWAYS works, before I go blowing any more time on what has so far been a sinkhole (no pun intended).
If I KNEW I would swim 29:59 for a half-IM (down from 37:15) after a year of serious dedication, I’d do it. I have my serious doubts, and am pretty sure I can drop that much off my run with less total time (thus lower investment cost and lower risk)…
If you made the commitment, you would not just improve your swim time, but, in my experience, you would be getting run help also!!
Have you ever made a 1 year, 5 days a week minimum commitment with a masters swim team?
Great question, one that I have struggled with as well. I think it has to be asked with some more specificity, separating investment in time versus money i.e. coaching.
Just finished my first year and 6th event, LT Oly. In that year, I have improved my swim pace by 32% over twice the distance. Earlier this year, I swam 1/4 mile sprint 48% faster than that first event.
This was due to an investment in both time and coaching, but I only swam 4 times week, with lots of technique work.
I am convinced beyond a reasonable doubt, that for poor swimmers starting out, the most important investment is in high quality coaching. Spending 6 days a week in the pool dog paddling only makes you a highly aerobic dog paddler.
At some time the equilibrium changes. I now have much better technique (well relative to a year ago anyway) and swimming more with better technique will definitely pay off.
Finally, but equally important, is when do you reach the point of declining returns on the investment in time. Do I spend an additional 2 hours in the pool to cut 2 mins of my oly time or is that better spend on the bike or the run?
I’ll help your reading comprehension: Did I say that was a bad time investment for him? No, I didn’t. How he spends his time is independent of where in the pack I race or how I spend my time. I thought that was obvious, but I guess not so I’ll repeat it.
Calculator = no, I didn’t use a calculator, I guessed. Turns out I was off by almost 30%:
A 1 mile oly swim at 1:20/100yd = 23:27
A 1 mile oly swim at 1:10/100yd = 20:31
= 2:56
A 1500 meter oly swim at 1:20/100yd = 21:52
A 1500 meter oly swim at 1:10/100yd = 19:08
= 2:44
I’m sure that’s a great investment for a Team Timex member that wants to win races with big competitive fields. That doesn’t describe me though.
Some of this may depend on your age and injuries. At 50, and talking to and looking at older racers, I see and hear on common comment,
your running WILL slow down, and lots of running causes more injuries.
I also talk to lot of older folks who did lots of running when they were younger, and are now having issues and wish they had not run as much.
So, since I am in this sport for the long haul, I will take my chances with more swimming, and less running to save the knees as much as I can.
When I made my “re-entry” into tri a couple years ago, I waited until 2 weeks before my first race to finally get to the pool. First time swimming laps in some 12 years.
At the sprint tri (a smallish race) I was third out of the water. Not that I think it was all that fast. I’d never done any competetive swimming other than tri (many years before).
So anyway, I trained in the pool pretty consistently for a year. No coaching or anything, but probably doing about 8K yds a week.
Same race the following year – I exit the water in second, a whole ONE SECOND faster than the previous year.
Excellent perspective, I have a subconscious worry that a finite but unknown amount of miles has been deposited in my knee and ankle account and every run is a withdrawal, but since I don’t get an account statement, who knows what is left.
BTW, 22 to 24 mins for Oly in 50 plus is excellent, would have easily won the swim at Lifetime.
I am convinced beyond a reasonable doubt, that for poor swimmers starting out, the most important investment is in high quality coaching. Spending 6 days a week in the pool dog paddling only makes you a highly aerobic dog paddler.
Agree 100%. Swimming is all about technique for the vast majority of age groupers. I’ve averaged a little over an hour of swimming per week this year, and can hold 1:30/100yd in a race. I try to hit 2 swims per week and I focus the majority of my time on drills I picked up from the TI book. I know it’s taboo, but I bought a vasa trainer a few weeks ago and have started using it every day.
Started swimming at 17 yrs old to do triathlons. Was never a great swimmer. I got down to 6:22 for a 500y in HS.
My soph year in college (20yrs old) I opted to “invest” in swimming and spent the winter swimming around 40k yards per week and dropped from 6:30 at the beggining of the season to 5:30 at the end of the season and a 19:21 1500m. And I now come out of the water with the leaders.
You make the BIG assumption that better swimming has no help with biking or running.
Where did I say that???
For someone running 10 or 15 miles per week, yes, I will concede that swimming might help your biking or running (but not as much as more biking or running would). And yes, better swim endurance means less fatigue which means faster bike/run splits.
I think one could get faster with a commitment to more swimming. The question is do you really want to and/or is it worth it? I can barely tolerate 3 swims a weeks.
**If I KNEW I would swim 29:59 for a half-IM (down from 37:15) after a year of serious dedication, I’d do it. **
you never KNOW what’s going to happen. Maybe you’d get down to 27:15… maybe you’d get stuck at 37 flat. IMO, if you spend a year acting like a real swimmer, you will get much faster.
Suppose you do want to dedicate a year to swimming. What’s your plan? Masters team, swimming alone, joining the local college fishies… ???
I had good results from focusing on my swim, and I didn’t nearly do as much as what you’re talking about.
I had signed up for Lake Placid and was somewhat worried about the distance. I had done about a half dozen 1/2 IMs in the years before, and pretty consistently swam 35 mins. I was usually around 26 for Olympic. So, pretty MOP for women, and definitely I slowed a LOT as the distance grew longer. Was expecting I’d probably go 1:15. I didn’t do a huge focus (because of the Bike & run training), I just swam a ton more than previously.
bumped my minimum yards/workout from 2000 to 3500
bumped my minimum yards/week from 4000 to 10000
bumped minimum workouts/week from 2 to 3
was videotaped underwater twice in about 4 months
made a conscious decision to go “hard” on the hard stuff, as I had had a habit if just cruising along any all sets
I’ll help your reading comprehension: Did I say that was a bad time investment for him? No, I didn’t. How he spends his time is independent of where in the pack I race or how I spend my time. I thought that was obvious, but I guess not so I’ll repeat it.
Calculator = no, I didn’t use a calculator, I guessed. Turns out I was off by almost 30%:
A 1 mile oly swim at 1:20/100yd = 23:27
A 1 mile oly swim at 1:10/100yd = 20:31
= 2:56
A 1500 meter oly swim at 1:20/100yd = 21:52
A 1500 meter oly swim at 1:10/100yd = 19:08
= 2:44
I’m sure that’s a great investment for a Team Timex member that wants to win races with big competitive fields. That doesn’t describe me though.
It was also more like doubling or at the most tripling rather than quadrupling, but yes, it did require more time and you have to decide whether or not you think it is worth it. Of course, you should also take into account that once you spend the extra training time to get fast, it takes much less volume to maintain that level of fitness, as a number of swimmers have attested to.
It is good, but I need to get to 17-19 to compete with Kevin and Dean.
Will never happen, but not because I will not be putting in the swim laps trying.
Started swimming way too late in life to have any techinque. :o(
Thanks for the comment though. I keep asking why I have gotten up at 4:20,
and into bed at 7 for the last 9 months.
