Completely agree with dev. Another problem is that a lot of dudes refuse to even use the gears they DO have. I recently did the White Lake Half, famous for its nasty wind, and I rode in the small ring for long stretches – along a flat road. I easily dropped one guy who I had been leap frogging with up to that point, as he grinded along at <60rpm into the wind. He later passed me back, but I believe if he had ridden smarter he would have outsplit me by 10 mins, not 2. A lot of dudes are not willing in the small ring on a flat road. And many I know are reluctant to drop down to it on rolling terrain, except as a “last resort”. I don’t get it.
Yesterday Garzelli won on Plan de Corones:
So if gearing is related to manhood, Garzelli had a "plan de * Cojones * " for the Plan de Corones?
Didn’t Slowman opine that ALL tri bikes should be spec’d out with compact cranks? I’m 99% positive that I read something along those lines a while back.
50x11 does 35.5 mph at 100 rpm and 42.6 mph at 120 rpm.
I’m not too worried about “spinning out”.
I do not know the watts cause i don’t measure anything.
“…I do agree most are overgeared but comparing AGers in triathlons to pro cyclists doing savage uphill TTs with limitless resources is completely unrealistic. Most recreational athletes just can’t justify a specific cassette and chainring combination for every race they do (plus, for most people, the attendant trip to the shop to get it installed and have the chain adjusted)…”
My point is (and as other posters alluded to), the same low gearing combo that might be good in Wildflower or IMLP (say 50/34, 12-27) offers all the gears that everyone but the top 3 percentile of age groupers need for a flat course. Most age groupers don’t need the 53/29 12-23. What they need is the 50/34 12-27…even if they live somewhere pancake flat the latter gearing option gives them everything they need for flats and hills.
Keep in mind that 48x12 is actually the same gear that guys like Anquetil use (52x13) to win the Tour de France. There is no one in triathlon riding as fast as Anquetil…so the “high gear arguement” for a 53x11 simply does not fly other than some twisted notion that a guy’s third leg and pizza plate chainring have a direct proportionality relationship in size 
Dev
When I looked at bikes for Auburn, I saw a lot of 11/23’s and thought these folks are nuts. I always love to have my 34/28, even if I do not need it.
I actually have to catch myself in the 'big chainring manliness trap" of not going to the small ring.
I was going to order a 47 tooth before Wildflower but never to around to it. I’m ordering the 47 big ring today…better chainline and you can stay in the big ring longer on rollers without spiking your effort (watts). Also forces downhill coasting a lot earlier on rolling courses, providing some rest for the legs before a long run.
I’ve had a top 50 bike at IMLP using a 48/34 combo up front
Small “big rings” available from www.harriscyclery.net for really cheap.
50/34 and 12-25 so my standard setup. I see no reason to change it. This past weekend, I passed many a Triathlete walking their bikes up hills.
50/34 and 12-25 so my standard setup. I see no reason to change it. This past weekend, I passed many a Triathlete walking their bikes up hills.
Even with the wrong gear you do not need to walk. You need to have some BALANCE at low speed. That is all. These triathletes should buy a mountain bike. It is probably faster for them.
Right, I’ll bite since I am one of the guys from the Mooseman thread you’re referring to though I did state I have switched out my 11-23 cassette to a 12-27 for the race but I’ll still be running standard cranks and not compact. Sure I bet there are times going up the large 1000’ climb, especially the second time around that I wish I had better gearing, and yes, I will be standing up on the pedals hardly moving at times and doing some damage to my run split at the same time I’m sure. But its nothing to do with my manhood or anything else, I am not doing the race to try and prove myself to you! Ok, so why am I forking out money to do a race and then run with less than optimal gearing I heard you ask before… several reasons:
- I live in Bermuda, we don’t have a plethora of bike parts, what we do have is ridiculously expensive and not much of a range - I had to get the 12-27 shipped in from England. Cassette cost $65, shipping and handling costs were $35 and duty was $16. That adds up quickly
- No, we don’t have an active secondhand market so don’t have the luxury of ebay, slowtwitch classifieds etc. I could buy stuff from the states but shipping and duty is astronomical to Bermuda
- Also, due to the high humidity, and sea salt on the roads (long island in the middle of the Atlantic subject to high winds), bike parts don’t last that long here so can’t have a huge array of spares. I have to run with the gear that fits the training I do as well as the racing, its pretty undulating here but no sustained climbs so I don’t need the extra gear % here to justify running a compact.
- I don’t have the disposable income (am 28 and living in one of the most expensive places in the world!) to throw it at bike parts, if I had the extra cash it would be to bring my girlfriend over to the race with me, failing that to stay in a hotel room the night before rather than camp, but when am already paying for race entry, flights, bike fees, accommodation, car hire, I don’t have the spare change to throw at extra rings. I’d rather suffer for a bit. Am not going for slots, i’m not going for a time, I’m actually going to enjoy the race, have fun and go as hard as I can on the dayetc.
- The disposable income I do have, I do it to race with as thats what I enjoy doing. Am just dabbling with halfs to try and get some extra bike strength when I jump back down to the Oly’s - hence choosing the hillier courses. Have only done 3 halves and I’m still learning, I take the Olys a lot more seriously and have had reasonable results in my age group.
- My 39-27 combo was sufficient for St Croix 70.3 too, again note, not perfect, but sufficient. I am not a professional cyclist like the Giro stage winner, if I was and could choose any gearing (provided by sponsors) of course I’d go with something more optimal but its not something everyone can do for every race. Just like I wouldn’t have done my first half back in '03 on an old Raleigh steel road bike, I’d have done it on a P3 (I’m not a fan of the P4!) with Zipp wheels.
- They only recently changed the course to add in a lot more climbing too because of road maintenance, I’ll make it up, and I’ll finish the race. Also, as I live a long way away its not exactly like I can practice the course during the weekend and decide my gearing isn’t up to scratch.
- Ok, so why do I travel for races then? Well, we don’t have that many races over here, lots of sprints, one Oly and nothing longer. The competition is actually amazingly high here but you pretty much know where you are going to finish before you start, and coming from a swimming background I am always the rabbit and don’t see that many other people during the race.
Ok, so my watts/per kg will go too high, but I don’t have a powermeter so I’ll never know, why don’t I have a powermeter, same as above. If I did have all the money for the toys, yes, I’d have one, a computrainer and all the other fancy gadgets, but for now, I just want to race and have fun, call me simple about it, I put in the training, I have a bike, so I race. I’m sure you will be better geared than me, I’m sure reading your other posts that you will go flying past me, thats fine by me but why worry about MY gearing?
I know this wasn’t directed straight at me but there is generally more than meets the eye to these things. Next year, I will be back living in Europe, and my race plans for 2011 include Alpe d’Huez long course, Germany 70.3 and Tristar Monaco. If I’m rocking a 12-25 at any of those races with standard cranks then you can legitimately call me stupid.
Hope to see you at the race, give me a shout as you go past!
I’ve already got a compact (50/34) crank and 12/27 cassette for Mooseman and will probably go to 11-28 on the back if I can.
Sadly, as I’ve gone to the easier gears, my manhood has not become any bigger.
What do road bikes usually come with?
(ie, I have no idea what’s on my Cannondale CAAD 8?)
Just have to look carefully at your small ring. It’ll probably have the number of teeth etched on it somewhere. If not, you’ll have to count them. (That’s easiest if you stick a piece of tape on the tooth where you start.)
If it’s got 38 or 39 teeth, it’s a standard crank. If it’s 34, you’ve got a compact.
i personally dont care about the manly thing or not. with a power meter its about the cold unfeeling calculation of putting the right watts and cadence at the right time.
the vast majority would be better off with a compact front and a 12-27 rear.
I have zero pride. Been riding 34x27 for a long time and just went down to 34x28 this year. No regrets at all. I ride hills a lot!
Dev…its horses for courses. The real problem is that people don’t understand gearing and why they might choose a certain cassette or chainrings. I am perfectly happy with a 59/39 and 11/21 here in the Charleston lowcountry. I prefer it because of the single step gearing in back…no big gap in the middle. I find that works better where changes in resistance are due to wind direction rather than incline. It also keeps the majority of my riding smack in the most centered chainline possible, whether riding easy in the small chainring or when rolling at threshold on the 53. On the road I normally do VO2 intervals I routinely hit 28-32mph and I’m glad to have that 11/21, especially if I’m doing low cadence work.
In rolling terrain (Norther Virginia, for instance) I’ll slap on the 12/23. At American Zofingen I used a 12/27 cassette. I would have swapped to a compact crankset as well, but I didn’t have access to one of the newer outboard bearing type cranks in compact size.
Most people just use what comes on their bikes. Its not a manhood thing. Its just ignorance.
What a timely thread…
I’ve been looking at what cassette to order to put on my race wheels. I have a Cervelo P2 that came with a 50/34 (compact) and 12-25 cassette. At 90 rpm, you’re at about 30mph and I’m spinning out on downhills quite often. I’ve also looked and my top two cassette gears are clean. So I’m contemplating moving to a 11-23 on my race wheels.
Of course, don’t want anyone questioning my manhood…
The problem with this is that I’m most comfortable riding at 75 - 80 rpm. So, I do spin out at those speeds because I don’t spend enough time at those cadences. So, then I just coast. But for people who like low cadence, compacts on downhills and tailwinds aren’t optimum.
A lot of this is Ground Hogs Day. 27 or 28 in the rear is pretty standard here in SLO and compacts are common. Like one racer friend from FL said the other day, she had never seen a triple until she borrowed a bike for her first ride up the coast. But it still seems like 1/2 the people who do the Wildflower are shocked and surprised to find hills.
Not only do people put out too many watts on climbs, they don’t put out enough going down. I usually race an 11x23 and think that, on most courses, the 11 saves me time. Some courses clearly warrant more gears so I’d swap on hilly courses, but would always regret giving up the 11, even if I knew it was the smart call (the biggest climbs have the biggest descents after all).
That’s why the Sram Red 11X26 is such an awesome cassette. Best of both worlds.
Jay…you were one of the smart guys in the Wildflower 45-49 rack…and as you said, even with the 34-28 you bottomed out (kinda like Garzelli at the Giro, but you just have less power to weight).
Tribriguy, I have to admit the single steps are nice. For that reason, with a 47/34 or 48/34 chain ring combo, it’s easier to stay in the “smaller cogs” where you have single step and tighter chainline.
Just ordered a 47 ($18) from Harriscyclery.net (by the way, they have Shimano Outboard bearing compatible compacts for $120 that I put on my road bike earlier this year). I’m planning to be the fastest guy with a 47 tooth big ring at Mooseman (actually, I will likely be the only one) :-). I’m also the type of rider that can ride at 70 RPM or 120 RPM (I don’t spin out at 120).
To the poster who said he needs the 11 tooth to maintain speed on downhills, it’s probably cause you never train high RPM riding and perhaps your zero watt tuck is not that good either. If you ride some crits/hard group rides etc, the best way to stay in touch with the pack is high RPM riding where it is easy to react to attacks. If you do that, no issue riding downhill really fast with a 52x13=48x12. Beyond a certain speed, it is just better in triathlon to tuck and coast rather than waste your kilojoules doing what gravity gives you for free.
Dev