Interns

The Coffee Shop
1

Unfortunately, part of my job (public health, non-profit) is to constantly find things for interns to do. I personally have two interns at all times, and program-wide there are at least a dozen at all times (probably 50 within the entire organization). One is a dietetics student from the local university’s MS-nutrition program, they have to have internship hours before they can sit for the RD test - the department chair sends me one of her students every semester. The other is generally a kid needing clinical hours because they want to apply for med or PA school. All are unpaid, it’s the industry. I have never heard of a paid internship in my field and 90% of the time they are tied to some university program requirement. We don’t need interns and we never seek them out, it’s more work for me to keep them busy. I get hounded daily on LinkedIn, emails through my organization’s website, friends or friends etc. about internship opportunities.

Someone I know from another organization contacted me because they had a niece who is going to graduate with their undergrad in public health next spring and was looking for an internship. Spent the last few weeks talking to my staff trying to figure out what the heck we could have this girl do, as a favor to someone I have a working relationship with. Did her background check, paid for her to get a physical/TB, etc., met with my dieticians to discuss what projects we could have her do, got her pretty much started; spent a not insignificant amount of time the last month trying to get this set up. Come back from my lunch break and there is an email from this girl: “this is paid right?”

I’m by no means saying that I think internships should not be paid, but it’s the reality of the industry and I want to know where this girl got the impression that this was different. More than anything, it annoys me to have to respond and tell her that it isn’t, and I can set her up with other organizations, but none of them are going to pay her either. Last thing I wanted to do before I go on my Christmas break was to upset some 21yr old girl who thought her aunt hooked her up.

2

I’m by no means saying that I think internships should not be paid, but it’s the reality of the industry and I want to know where this girl got the impression that this was different.

I’m guessing from the US Department of Labor, given their recent lawsuits against several companies who use unpaid interns.

3

There’s a big difference between an internship for a non-profit and a for-profit. Different rules apply.

4

If you paid her and depending on how long the internship is, you would have to offer her health coverage too.

5

I’m by no means saying that I think internships should not be paid, but it’s the reality of the industry and I want to know where this girl got the impression that this was different.

I’m guessing from the US Department of Labor, given their recent lawsuits against several companies who use unpaid interns.

It’s a non-profit, completely different rules. No interns are paid in my field, never even heard of it happening. A HUMONGOUS part (like 50%) of our federally mandated in-kind donations are through interns and other unpaid volunteers. We’ve had this girl here for probably a dozen hours the past month, emailed back and forth several dozen times; never was there any mention of money, no filling out of a W2, no discussion of pay rate…nothing whatsoever. Also, her aunt is in the industry, her professors know me by name, and our HR department has never dealt with a paid intern, they certainly did not give her the impression that it was paid. She also didn’t go through any sort of interview process, we did not have a posting for an intern (and this girl was well aware of this fact), this was purely a favor to someone I know in the field. Did she just think we were going to make up a job for her on the spot and never once discuss money, but all the sudden in two weeks a check was going to be mailed to her?

More than anything, I feel really bad for the girl. She just learned a harsh reality of the industry she has been studying 4yrs to try to get into. The last thing I wanted to do right before the break is to upset a young girl. Personally, I wish we didn’t have to deal with interns at all, but that is how most people get into the field.

6

I’m not sure what the problem is. You tell her that you’re sorry if she was confused, but need to inform her that this is an unpaid internship, which is standard in the industry. You offer to provide her with contact info and recommendations to other programs if she’s interested in looking around, but that you feel certain those internships will also be unpaid.

She’s 21, not 12.

7

I’m not sure what the problem is. You tell her that you’re sorry if she was confused, but need to inform her that this is an unpaid internship, which is standard in the industry. You offer to provide her with contact info and recommendations to other programs if she’s interested in looking around, but that you feel certain those internships will also be unpaid.

She’s 21, not 12.

That’s the issue. This isn’t the first time I’ve had to deal with this, most of the time they do act like 12yr olds. I’ll probably get a call from her aunt over the break, half apologizing and half letting me know we should have made it even more clear it was not a paid position. I’m also very blunt (I guess it could be the Asperger’s Syndrome), I’ll probably mention to the aunt that she should have discussed with her how the industry works before asking me for a favor and I’ll hurt someone’s feelings. Nothing I can do about the situation, nobody told her she would get paid and we can’t pay her, but it’s still something I don’t like to deal with.

Just a rant, I really hate the industry standard regarding interns and I hate even more the fact that the feds pretty much force us to have them (a lot of them) through in-kind requirements. I’d much prefer that there were no interns, paid or otherwise; they decrease productivity and efficiency. In a really cush job, it’s the part I dislike the most. Last day before I go on a 2.5 week break, I didn’t want to do anything today but wish my employees merry Christmas and get the heck out.

8

I don’t think she understands any of that. I think someone told her the DOL is going after unpaid internships and did not know if or how it would impact her situation.

9

Advise her to look at Americorps, least she can make 12K year
.

10

I don’t think she understands any of that. I think someone told her the DOL is going after unpaid internships and did not know if or how it would impact her situation.

Every person involved in the situation (her aunt, her professors, our HR, me) made no mention of pay, and I (wrongly) assumed her aunt and professors would have made it very clear…before they bothered to contact me. I also wrongly assume adults kind of catch on; a month getting everything going for this, money is never even mentioned, no W2, she never once asked about in that entire time. I generally inquired about compensation prior to applying for a job, but maybe that is just me. I’ve had this same thing happen several times, never after having gone through a month of preparation and I literally wanted to do nothing today. Oh well, I’ll just hand the phone to my wife when the aunt calls me and she’ll clear it up without making anybody angry.

11

I’m not sure what the problem is. You tell her that you’re sorry if she was confused, but need to inform her that this is an unpaid internship, which is standard in the industry. You offer to provide her with contact info and recommendations to other programs if she’s interested in looking around, but that you feel certain those internships will also be unpaid.

She’s 21, not 12.

Makes sense. And it’s not like she’s asking an unreasonable question. If I as a college student was planning on spending a summer or other period as an intern, I would want to know if it was a paid internship. The fact that she asked seems an indication that she understands that some internships are not paid. Whetehr it’s paid might make a difference when deciding between options.

12

The mere fact that nobody has made any mention of pay doesn’t mean it’s not a reasonable question.

This is years ago, so my memory may be a bit fuzzy, but I remember in college looking at various options, some of which were unpaid internships and some of which were paid. Whether it was paid was a major factor. Not the only one, but a major one.

If it wasn’t clear in advance that it was an unpaid internship, I would have worried more if she had never asked.

13

That’s the issue. This isn’t the first time I’ve had to deal with this, most of the time they do act like 12yr olds. /quote]

Wait a minute. People want to be paid for their labor? Thanks Obama!

14

I want to know where this girl got the impression that this was different. More than anything, it annoys me to have to respond and tell her that it isn’t, and I can set her up with other organizations, but none of them are going to pay her either.

I’m surprised when internships aren’t paid, actually. I know intellectually that it’s industry specific, but all of my second-hand experience is that ‘good’ internships are paid, and only the crap ones are unpaid. Most of my experience is second-hand and from STEM students though. Music majors don’t intern, we just make less money. If her peer group is outside of her major, she may have a similar impression that I do.

Advise her to look at Americorps, least she can make 12K year

But will it get her required internship hours or a directly relevant&marketable experience on her resume? I doubt I’d be able to get pharmacy intern hours that way…

edit: it’s possible she’s asking now because you need to get your paperwork in early for financial aid. I know people who had to take out student loans throughout the year in order to support themselves as unpaid interns.

15

I want to know where this girl got the impression that this was different. More than anything, it annoys me to have to respond and tell her that it isn’t, and I can set her up with other organizations, but none of them are going to pay her either.

I’m surprised when internships aren’t paid, actually. I know intellectually that it’s industry specific, but all of my second-hand experience is that ‘good’ internships are paid, and only the crap ones are unpaid. Most of my experience is second-hand and from STEM students though. Music majors don’t intern, we just make less money. If her peer group is outside of her major, she may have a similar impression that I do.

You have to understand the industry, or non-profits in general. Organizations that receive federal funding have to get a certain percentage matched in in-kind donations. My program alone has to raise $120k/month. We get diapers/toilet paper/household goods donated by Costco, I get physicians and dentists to do exams and treat children for free, I have a translation company (owned by my uncle) do all our translation for free, etc. but the reality is the huge majority of this has to come through volunteer work. Whether it is from boy scouts cleaning our building or Adobe employees doing all our grounds maintenance (yep, this happens) or unpaid interns. We fortunately have great relationships with local businesses and clinicians so we get a lot more *stuff *donated than most, but we still rely on interns for about $20k/month. There are similar organizations in the state who need 5x-10x more free intern work to hit their match.

Unpaid interns are not necessary to get the work done, they are necessary to hit the in-kind requirements set by the feds. They create work for us, they don’t do it. I spend at least 5hrs/month trying to create out of thin air, projects for these kids to do which aren’t at all necessary for our program. I loathe the system, hate it (I came from a different industry and my college internship was paid). What I was frustrated about was how it had gotten this far without anybody telling her that she was getting paid; not her aunt who reached out to me, not her professors who hand us several interns every semester, not our HR. She’d been working on a project with one of our dieticians for about three weeks, a project which I don’t need done (just something for her to do to get her hours), and out of the blue she asks me if she is getting paid. Had it been any other time other than 2hrs before I was about to go on a long vacation, I probably wouldn’t have given it a second thought either.

Just a rant against the system in general and why several people did not address it in the past month. More than anything, her aunt should have told her before contacting me. Have to wonder what was going through her head as well, not once even asking about compensation. Just a minor annoyance before my Christmas break.

16

The mere fact that nobody has made any mention of pay doesn’t mean it’s not a reasonable question.

This is years ago, so my memory may be a bit fuzzy, but I remember in college looking at various options, some of which were unpaid internships and some of which were paid. Whether it was paid was a major factor. Not the only one, but a major one.

If it wasn’t clear in advance that it was an unpaid internship, I would have worried more if she had never asked.

My company (me specifically) hires interns every summer for various things. Mostly engineers, designers, materials, and sometimes HR. We treat them just like a regular employee from the very beginning. The interview process, the hiring process, the work day, and the release at the end of the summer. We pay them the hiring rate minus 10% for whatever discipline they’ve been hired into, and we don’t look for work for them, work finds the good ones. If there is nothing specific for them to do then they follow one of the senior managers around for the day. We do this because an intern here isn’t just punching their ticket, they are punching our ticket. We are doing a 6 week interview that you can’t do any other way. We are finding out if they can survive in our industry (Defense and Commercial Nuclear) and get along with our other employees. Paying them makes sure when the good ones get multiple offers they remember that we treated them better than the others (we hope).

17

“I’ve had this same thing happen several times, never after having gone through a month of preparation and I literally wanted to do nothing today.”

If the same thing keeps happening to you, and you don’t like it, why wouldn’t you take the obvious action of telling potential candidates right off the bat that the position is unpaid? It might be obvious to someone who has been in the industry, but obviously it isn’t to someone at the intern level if it has happened several times.

18

Don’t feel bad. Your Intern is just lazy and failed to perform even the most basic Google research or conduct any industry-specific due diligence. I suspect she was all too happy to let her Aunt do the heavy lifting of finding her an internship.

Although I’m personally opposed to unpaid internships (I pay my interns), my daughter had an internship in NYC with the late Oscar de la Renta knowing full well it was an unpaid gig in his PR Department. She researched the crap out of the industry and fully understood the “rules”. Although the whole experience cost me a small fortune, it was worth its weight in gold for her (and eventually, us).

As a result, she realized she loved the City but not the industry. Now, at age 23, she’s living in the upper east side and working for a great company in a different industry, following her dreams and excited with life. Best of all, she’s off the payroll and the Bank of Mom & Dad is officially closed! (for the most part).

19

My company (me specifically) hires interns every summer for various things. Mostly engineers, designers, materials, and sometimes HR. We treat them just like a regular employee from the very beginning. The interview process, the hiring process, the work day, and the release at the end of the summer. We pay them the hiring rate minus 10% for whatever discipline they’ve been hired into, and we don’t look for work for them, work finds the good ones. If there is nothing specific for them to do then they follow one of the senior managers around for the day. We do this because an intern here isn’t just punching their ticket, they are punching our ticket. We are doing a 6 week interview that you can’t do any other way. We are finding out if they can survive in our industry (Defense and Commercial Nuclear) and get along with our other employees. Paying them makes sure when the good ones get multiple offers they remember that we treated them better than the others (we hope).

+1 exactly our intern philosophy, too. I’m in the architecture, engineering and interior design business. The competition for MEP and Structural Engineers is brutal. Civil Engineers are a little easier to recruit. Good Architects and Interior Designers are getting tougher, too.

20

“I’ve had this same thing happen several times, never after having gone through a month of preparation and I literally wanted to do nothing today.”

If the same thing keeps happening to you, and you don’t like it, why wouldn’t you take the obvious action of telling potential candidates right off the bat that the position is unpaid? It might be obvious to someone who has been in the industry, but obviously it isn’t to someone at the intern level if it has happened several times.

It’s happened several times the day we began the process, not a month later. I do agree that it is something HR should be proactive about, telling candidates immediately, they are so used to working in a system where paid internships never happen so they might assume everybody just knows. Some potential interns aren’t aware of the industry standard, usually those who are not funneled to us through local universities, but they ask about compensation when the HR process (background check, TB…) gets started or at least by the time I actually meet with them. They are usually surprised, some get a little irritated, but they know what’s going on before I waste a significant amount of my and my employee’s time. Never once have I had an individual go through everything, work for about three weeks, and then ask me about compensation shortly before they were going to present me the work they did (not that it matters, I had to make up a project I don’t need for her). I get the impression this young lady has never had a job before, at least in my experience it isn’t common practice to ask about compensation for the 1st time after you have been working for several weeks.

It’s a matter of me personally hating the system, I would so much rather not have to deal with them at all. Interns do not bring any productivity to our program whatsoever, they create work; the biggest issue I have by far with my field (so many things are done without any thought into whether it is a good use of resources, those resources are our tax dollars). The fact that it was the niece of someone I work with on a regular basis and who is in a program which feeds me interns regularly made it a tad annoying. It’s a very trivial matter, just annoyed me on the wrong day.