So I did my second race this morning and had an increase of 15w for my average power. Question is, since I’m new, is this significant? The reason I ask is because I ended up doing horrible on the run. Thanks for any direction you can provide.
So I did my second race this morning and had an increase of 15w for my average power. Question is, since I’m new, is this significant? The reason I ask is because I ended up doing horrible on the run. Thanks for any direction you can provide.
That’s not an increase in your FTP, that’s an increase in the %ftp you rode the race at. So you overcooked the bike and paid for it on the run.
So I did my second race this morning and had an increase of 15w for my average power. Question is, since I’m new, is this significant? The reason I ask is because I ended up doing horrible on the run. Thanks for any direction you can provide.
That’s not an increase in your FTP, that’s an increase in the %ftp you rode the race at. So you overcooked the bike and paid for it on the run.
Yes I realize I ruined the run because of the bike but trying to figure out if the 15w could actually cause this…seems like a nominal value.
What is a nominal value?
15 W could be >10% of your ftp or <5%. And depending on race length that could have made a difference in your run or not.
Honestly not a lot to go on here. But my guess is unless you’ve been cycling a long time (which it doesn’t sound like) is that your ftp is on the low side and this represents a significant % of that ftp.
What is a nominal value?
15 W could be >10% of your ftp or <5%. And depending on race length that could have made a difference in your run or not.
Honestly not a lot to go on here. But my guess is unless you’ve been cycling a long time (which it doesn’t sound like) is that your ftp is on the low side and this represents a significant % of that ftp.
Sorry. Still trying to figure out what all I should provide to get any idea. It was just a sprint distance.
20 min Power
195w - Today
176w - Last race (early June)
Avg. Power
181w - Today
165w - Last
NP
201w - Today
184w - Last
An important question is this: Did you run well after the 184NP bike split? If you did, and you didn’t run so well off the 201NP bike split, one might think that your FTP hasn’t gone up at all. All you did was a classic over bike at this last race and paid for over biking by having a craptacular run. Welcome to triathlon. It’s a race to the finish line, not T2.
I think you should first read about what FTP is, how to train using a power meter and how to use it races etc. There are plenty of books and articles on the interwebs. Without some basic understanding of how this stuff works your power meter is useless and you won’t be able to derive any useful information from your data.
Sorry. Still trying to figure out what all I should provide to get any idea. It was just a sprint distance.
No problem. Everyone starts off somewhere. And there are plenty of people here who know more than I do. But for now…
20 min Power
195w - Today
176w - Last race (early June)
Avg. Power
181w - Today
165w - Last
NP
201w - Today
184w - Last
Honestly the power numbers look pretty good for someone who doesn’t know about power, although the NP are a lot higher than AP. Were they hilly races? One thing you will want to do is try to keep your power output as even as possible throughout a race. Generally for a tri the closer the ratio NP:AP is to 1 the better for your run. The ratios in both cases were 1.11 so that probably didn’t contribute to your problems. But you might be able to maintain the higher average power of 181W as long as you keep the power fluctuations down. For example, maybe 181 AP & 188 NP. (There will be strategic times when you are fine letting your power go up especially during shorter races, but for now, let’s just keep things simple.)
But the power values provided still don’t tell us enough, given that you don’t give any numbers outside of the race. What one would normally do is an FTP test. This will tell you what you are capable of. Essentially the current state of your physiological ability. A week before the race would be ideal from a testing standpoint but not necessarily a training & recovery & racing standpoint. Then you see how much power you put out during the race and compare those two values to see how much you taxed your system. (Ideally, you use FTP among other metrics to plan your race. And there are other ways to estimate power instead of a straight-up FTP test. See the books below.)
The short-term approach, as written by Ktri above, is to ask how was your run during both races? If the second run was worse than the first then you probably over-biked. If you have another race (similar conditions) coming up, without any other info I’d recommend you shoot for closer to 175 AP and 180 NP to be safe or 181 AP & 188 NP if you want to push it some.
Long term, you need to educate yourself about training and racing with power. Trailerhouse is right. Get a book. You can learn a lot on ST and on the interwebs, but I think it might be overwhelming until you get at least a basic handle on the science.
A great place to start is The Power Meter Handbook by Joel Friel. If you are happy jumping into the deep-end right away, then go for Coggan & Allen’s book, Training and Racing with a Power Meter. It is the Bible. You should def read that eventually, but right now the shorter, less comprehensive Friel book would be my recommendation. Read both multiple times, highlight and annotate the shit out of them.
This page and file are also a good and simple intro. Maybe start here, while the Friel book is shipping:
https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/how-to-get-started-training-with-power/
http://home.trainingpeaks.com/tp/CmsReplacement/DownloadTrainingWithPowerEbook
Then do an FTP test. There are a few out there, especially some newer ramp tests with which I’m not familiar. Figure out the power you should be using in training and racing based on that. The sooner you do the test the better idea you will have how your race power stacked up to your FTP. (Again, there are other ways to estimate FTP than a straight-up test. See the books.)
Another option for training (but not racing) with power is to join something like TrainerRoad. That will be a plan that you choose to help you prep for your next race. It won’t help you plan the race, per se, but it will def help you improve. You will improve a lot.
Helps?
Edited: fixed links
Honestly the power numbers look pretty good for someone who doesn’t know about power, although the NP are a lot higher than AP. Were they hilly races? One thing you will want to do is try to keep your power output as even as possible throughout a race. Generally for a tri the closer the ratio NP:AP is to 1 the better for your run. The ratios in both cases were 1.11 so that probably didn’t contribute to your problems. But you might be able to maintain the higher average power of 181W as long as you keep the power fluctuations down. For example, maybe 181 AP & 188 NP. (There will be strategic times when you are fine letting your power go up especially during shorter races, but for now, let’s just keep things simple.)
But the power values provided still don’t tell us enough, given that you don’t give any numbers outside of the race. What one would normally do is an FTP test. This will tell you what you are capable of. Essentially the current state of your physiological ability. A week before the race would be ideal from a testing standpoint but not necessarily a training & recovery & racing standpoint. Then you see how much power you put out during the race and compare those two values to see how much you taxed your system. (Ideally, you use FTP among other metrics to plan your race. And there are other ways to estimate power instead of a straight-up FTP test. See the books below.)
The short-term approach, as written by Ktri above, is to ask how was your run during both races? If the second run was worse than the first then you probably over-biked. If you have another race (similar conditions) coming up, without any other info I’d recommend you shoot for closer to 175 AP and 180 NP to be safe or 181 AP & 188 NP if you want to push it some.
Long term, you need to educate yourself about training and racing with power. Trailerhouse is right. Get a book. You can learn a lot on ST and on the interwebs, but I think it might be overwhelming until you get at least a basic handle on the science.
A great place to start is The Power Meter Handbook by Joel Friel. If you are happy jumping into the deep-end right away, then go for Coggan & Allen’s book, Training and Racing with a Power Meter. It is the Bible. You should def read that eventually, but right now the shorter, less comprehensive Friel book would be my recommendation. Read both multiple times, highlight and annotate the shit out of them.
This page and file are also a good and simple intro. Maybe start here, while the Friel book is shipping:
https://www.trainingpeaks.com/...training-with-power/
http://home.trainingpeaks.com/tp/CmsReplacement/DownloadTrainingWithPowerEbook
Then do an FTP test. There are a few out there, especially some newer ramp tests with which I’m not familiar. Figure out the power you should be using in training and racing based on that. The sooner you do the test the better idea you will have how your race power stacked up to your FTP. (Again, there are other ways to estimate FTP than a straight-up test. See the books.)
Another option for training (but not racing) with power is to join something like TrainerRoad. That will be a plan that you choose to help you prep for your next race. It won’t help you plan the race, per se, but it will def help you improve. You will improve a lot.
Helps?
Edited: fixed links
Thank you all for your thoughts and direction. I will study more. I already have “Training and Racing with a Power Meter” by Allen & Coggan. I just need to read it again as I only had glanced through it a few years ago. I just started regularly cycling in late April of this year. I train on Zwift and obviously ride outdoors when possible. I’ve done a few FTP tests throughout that time period, starting at an FTP of 137w and gradually moving up to 173w prior to my first race in June. After my race in June, Garmin bumped up my FTP to 181w and right before my most recent race I retested on Zwift with an FTP of 183w. After this race Garmin then upped my FTP to 195w. Although a sprint, the elevation change was double that of the first one. I pushed extremely hard through the first part of the course, which was where the bulk of the hills were at. I didn’t transfer my “twist-off” Garmin watch to my bike mount so I did not get to look at the power but a couple times. I saw at one point I had an NP of 211 which I thought was a little high but not terrible so I just backed off a little bit. (I’m thinking now that this was way high??) Towards the end of the course there was another long hill that I pushed up. I think that might have been the nail in the coffin for me moving to the run. Also, it was extremely hot and I don’t believe I hydrated the proper way. I was using EFS’s full strength “Race Day” and “EFS” on the bike and had some more waiting for me in transition. I would have given anything for just water. Lesson learned not to try a new drink during a race. I got a new record of sustained 20 minute HR in Training Peaks of 180, which I know is not a good thing at all. Usually heat doesn’t really bother me but for some reason I started to get stomach cramps about half way through. Anyway, I have another sprint at the 1st course in September so I can compare with the 1st race.
I got a new record of sustained 20 minute HR in Training Peaks of 180, which I know is not a good thing at all.
Personally, I like any new peak from Training Peaks. A peak HR just means your able to push yourself a little harder or your body is adjusting to improved lactate threshold. I’m assuming that you also had a new peak 20min power if Garmin upped your FTP from that race.
Heat does bother me. However, for a sprint I have always found that pre-race hydration (including a couple days before the race) is the most important aspect for such a short effort. You really shouldn’t need more than water during a sprint effort, even on a really hot day. Best thing for me is too sip on sports drinks I use Infinit hydrate throughout the day before and make sure that I finish an entire bottle before the race starts. If I need to pee really bad during the swim warm-up then I’m in good shape.
Yes I realize I ruined the run because of the bike but trying to figure out if the 15w could actually cause this…seems like a nominal value.
(channelling my inner Mueller) Yes
.