I’m hoping to run a sub 3:15 marathon in June. I’m leaning towards a Daniel’s marathon training program. I’ve read both Daniels’ and Pfitzinger’s books and liked them both, but the 2 things I liked about Daniels were:
the order of quality workouts (VO2 focus first then tempo later…just makes more sense to me vs the oppositive in Pfitz.).
the emphasis of Daniels on M (Marathon pacing). It seems right to me that you need to get your body used to running a certain pace and not just hope that your body can actually do it on game day. (I do understand that Pfitz has you running on tired legs, and also building the pace during your long runs–although not to M pace).
Here are my issues/questions:
Daniels specifically recommends following his Marathon program for Marathons (i.e., not his Blue, Red, Gold plans etc). But the Marathon program only references 2 quality workouts per week. What do people typically do on the other days? (I’ve returned to skim the book twice and can’t find a mention of this). Do you just “run any combination of Easy pace miles” to get to your target mileage goal?
How do most people determine mileage goal? (Also, I noticed that the first 6 weeks of the 24 wk program are pretty mellow and then at week 18 he has you doing 80% of peak mileage…wow…seems like a step up).
It seems like a ton of people recommend Pfitz. It certainly seems more straightforward. I’m curious if anyone had experience doing a “Pfitz-Daniels” plan “mash” (i.e., following a Pfitz-like schedule, but flipping the order of VO2 and Tempo in Pfitz and incorporating some M pace running and maybo some of Daniels T pace workouts, which seem to come highly recommended).
I am currently doing the Marathon A and am in week 12
I arbitrarily made my max mileage at 55 cuz I know I’m capable of it.
I used the first 6 weeks to build up milage to ~40miles/week. Went into week 7 as he plans Q1 and Q2 workouts with the distances and paces he describes. I use the rest of the days of the week running at an easy pace (subjective) to bring up my total milage close to what is prescribed.
I’m not sure exactly what you are referring to when you mention lack of marathon pace workouts in the Pfitzinger programs - they are all over, particularly in the last mesocycle. In my opinion, Pfitz lays out an ideal periodization strategy that focuses on a) pushing your LT and b) edging your MP closer to your LT. To that end, I find that the very sporadic implementation of VO2max very late in the program is the ideal time.
Think of it in terms of the principle of training specificity - the closer you get to your goal race, the more specific your training for that race ought to be, as opposed to further away from the race when you are laying the foundation. That is exactly what Pfitzinger excels at in comparison to most other programs - the periodization to first give you the ability to perform at your desired marathon level and then approach the SPECIFIC demands of the race with more and more race-simulating workouts later on.
I have used both programs as well as the hal higdon programs. After 12 marathons I can tell you consistency of work is more important than any program. Just run. Some hard but mostly easy. For the past year I quit worrying about time and just focused on being consistent and my times have really improved. Best wishes
The other runs in the Daniels plan are all at his defined Easy pace. Took me ages to figure that out too!
I used the book 2 years ago. I didn’t have time to do the full plan so picked it up with about 12 weeks to go. Was hoping for a sub 1:30 HM race and sub 3:20 mar and did 1:27 and 3:14 so was very pleased. I’d like to do the full plan next time. I think I peaked at about 110km/week
The plan is harder than it looks on paper, I really needed those E pace runs. Some of the Q runs were really tough.
The plan works best if you can do the runs on the flat as it is pace based.
I subsequently read the Pfitzinger book, which also looks good, but I’d like to do the full Daniels plan before trying the Pfitz plans…