Why do you think he bought it in NZ? It’s way more likely he brought it with him. Where do Imo and her boyfriend live at the moment?
[quote=“pk, post:500, topic:1286389, full:true”]
A naive accident , any half smart pro would make sure their partners are very careful with supplements.[/quote]
I don’t really understand that line of thinking. How can a pro “make sure” their partners are clean. Partners/ spouses lie. Can anybody “make sure” their partners don’t cheat?
I am not saying she is innocent or that she was unaware of his supplements, just that’s it’s quite possible. A guy dates a world class athlete who hangs out with other world class athletes—it’s pretty easy to imagine that he feels physically inadequate and tries to compensate with an illegal supplement. Maybe he knows she would be angry or look down on him for doping, so he feels shame and hides it. He thinks his lies are victimless and doesn’t anticipate (or willfully ignores) the harm they can do. People deceive themselves and others all the time, even loved ones, especially loved ones.
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Is it possible/plausible that she was unaware? Yes, of course.
But it’s also possible/plausible she knew he was taking something to improve his physique. Right?
I mean, how many of us didn’t know you could dope via semen? It’s also possible they didn’t know.
This thread is a perfect example of why and how dopers get caught. You need to get out of your head that he/she was on it in NZ. This shit can stay in your system for ages, months!! And the elimination time also vary wildly from person to person.
They have done studies where people dosed with tiny amounts, we are talking pico grams are still detectable over a month later!
Dosed at the amounts they use for doping purposes and if you get tested 12 months later you will test positive.
1a) “You need to get out of your head that he/she was on it in NZ.” Simmonds says that her boyfriend revealed (after receiving the AAF) that “totally unknown to her” (her words) he was taking Ligandrol during the relevant period. His hair sample analysis report (sample taken early February, about 8 weeks after 7th December) evidences that.
For @TheStroBro Btw It is entirely ‘legal’ to bring Ligandrol into NZ (ie in baggage). As @Lagoon says: “It’s way more likely he brought it with him.” I have shared a link explaining its legal status upthread. Simmonds flew straight from Dubai to Auckland (itinerary of boyfriend unknown).
1b) Who is suggesting Simmonds was “on it in NZ” (assume you mean doping)? 
2) “Dosed at the amounts they use for doping purposes and if you get tested 12 months later you will test positive.” Yes, and no doubt if boyfriend had been subject to the OOC on 8th December it would’ve shown +ve. But on 2nd December Simmonds tested clear so that pre that test she was not dosing let alone “at the amounts they use for doping purposes”.
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Thanks for all the info Ryan and @Ajax_Bay
Just a general comment, is “contamination” cases become bigger and bigger. It seemed like post the whole late 90’s doping fiasco, a positive test was a positive test. That seemed to be the norm for what 15 years, and then just before pre covid it turned into this whole- GNC had substances that wasn’t part of the ingredients package reasoning.
Now it seems like doping cases have all kinds of what seemingly are “valid” reasons of why there was incidental doping.
So again just a general comment, is this more from athletes are better at “lawyering up”? Testers allowing for the valid reason of not knowingly doping. I actually had never even realized that could be a justification if the facts proved you didn’t do it. So it’s sorta interesting the whole turn of events. The only thing I wonder though, micro dosing seems to be where doping is going these days vs going to the blood doctor and “glowing” regardless of when the time of year. So are we simply going to see more and more of these cases if it gets into the public. Which then makes you wonder, just how many cases are out there that go into a provisional state without the public knowing and then are cleared at a later date…IE the “oops I have a mysterious injury/illness so I’m out for X race” weird timing.
Again there was a huge scuttlebutt in summer of '23 that a big name was going through a positive, but it was only “rumors” so obviously somehow/someway it never came to light…Messick spoke about cases like that before he retired I think.
With micro dosing seemingly be the likely method these days, it just seems like it’s only going to increase; hell the tennis star said he got it during a massage, and while still convicted, he got a complete slap on the wrist.
So are athletes now going to be like famous people and 1 person within their entorage is going to be the designated “fall guy”?
No not necessarily. There have been case studies where people have tested negative and then a following week positive. It has to do with the way it being fat soluble and therefore not consistent with the way it’s released.
What I’m saying is any athlete with half a brain would look at a thread like this and determine that they need to not be on it close to competition day, but if they had more than half a brain they would realise there isn’t really any safe period of time to not risk testing positive.
I have looked back 100 odd posts and gave up trying to find this, can you provide the link?
Assuming her story is upheld. She tested positive for a substance that there is a zero threshold for, but she didn’t dope via semen. Doping is consciously using drugs to get better, but she tested positive for having it in her system. Hardly semen doping.
Yes, I looked back too when posting the sentence above, to avoid a ‘hanging chad’, but gave up. So at your behest searched “legal” in this thread, and abracadabra:
A bit of a weak source for that claim? A SARM guide website that says SARMS are legal in every country in the world except Australia…?
This more ‘official’ looking link says they are illegal in NZ
https://sportintegrity.nz/news/the-truth-about-sarms
“SARMs are also illegal in New Zealand.”
And this one…
“illegal to posses SARMS without legal authority”…
I posted links upthread that demonstrated hormonal transfer through semen is a fact. If hormones in semen can cause positive emotional effects in women, that’s something physical happening. Its completely reasonable at that point that positive performance gains could also happen if those hormones were PEDs.
The question of fault then becomes irrelevant. “I’m sorry officer, I was speeding because my speedometer is broken,” is still a speeding infraction.
She doesn’t have to intend to dope via semen because the result is the same, intent or not.
Semen shouldn’t be a get out of jail free card.
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OK…so how about this.
Women are held to a higher standard then. I haven’t heard one male get off of a AAF because of sex with a woman. So…you have a sig other who is not completely telling you that they are using XYZ as they are trying to get fit…not even thinking about it…and here she gets popped. Based on…SO’s semen. That is not something a male athlete needs to even consider.
The speeding thing is silly. I’ve been pulled over before twice and been given a warning. One time - honestly looking at a car behind me that was driving too fast the other way and missed the speed change. Given benefit of the doubt. Technically yes, speeding but there’s a difference between that and excessive speed. This…is almost him driving and speeding and them switching seats because he would lose his license…for lack of a better analogy. She’s taking the heat for him.
ETA…well…i’ve had my best races after nights of great sex…and vice versa to former partner. NOT doping…don’t be silly.
Also ETA a speeding infraction doesn’t destroy your career. An excessive speeding infraction that causes vehicular homicide does. You can’t equate those things. She’s not getting a $125 fine…
Ultimately, as we have increased the penalties for most offenses from two to four years, we have also realized that there are athletes who have violated the code through something other than intentional doping. WADA, and every body that is a signatory, recognizes this – which is now we have mitigating factors with regard to the ultimate punishment under the Code.
The most significant of them, of course, is those positives that are a result of no fault or negligence of the athlete in its entirety. Doping infractions require, at minimum, negligence on the athlete (or their support staff) for there to be something that is suspendible. The Code is written to really identify athletes who are intending to cheat.
@Lurker4 as much as you would like doping offenses to be strict liability, they simply are not. Whether they should be is an entirely different matter. I disagree that intent does not matter, for whatever it’s worth. This isn’t a generic speeding ticket. It’s something with a far greater penalty attached to it. E.g., offenses with excessive speed, in order to rise to the level of requiring jail time, needs at a minimum recklessness attached to it.
It is a controlled substance which he would have to declare at customs and likely would have forfeited possession of the powder had he done so as his usage isn’t in their definition of possession with legal authority.
What country are you in by the way?
Which is probaly what it should be. Ultimately we want cheaters out of the sport.
I don’t know where I stand on the provisional test results being leaked vs it staying “private” until concluded; which means we maybe should have never heard of this case if she gets fully cleared. I would guess a provisional test result would easily be covered by ESPN with any of the big sports in north america, so I get it. So I guess it’s’ more “how did the information get leaked” is the bigger concern. This was from her camp, and not from the testers, as it should be imo.
Thanks for the discussion.
Is either Ligandrol or the supplement he was taking a “controlled substance” (idk: define).
This is the NZ customs advice (I went through any entry which might have been relevant):
"Bringing controlled drugs such as cannabis, methadone or pseudoephedrine into New Zealand is illegal and is prohibited unless you have a licence to import from the Ministry of Health, or you are covered by the exemption outlined below.
“Attempting to smuggle or import controlled drugs into New Zealand could result in imprisonment.”
Going to the NZ Medsafe site and searching (all controlled drugs in those data, I assume) gives no hits for Ligandrol, LGD 4033 or LGD-4033.
https://www.medsafe.govt.nz/profs/class/classintro.asp
All terribly interesting, but peripheral to the issue. The hair analysis will show that he was ingesting Ligandrol during the period leading up to and including 8th December.
Ligandrol is a SARM, Ligandrol doesn’t come up but SARMs do. You seem to like being a contrarian to be one. But I need you answer the question, what country are you from/do you reside in?
The secrecy of the provisional process is meant to leave the Athlete in the best light as their name doesn’t get drug through the mud and if they are able to successfully defend themselves it’s as if it doesn’t happen.
He already posted a bogus link saying SARMS were legal but conveniently ignored my offical links showing they are illegal.
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Yes which is the best policy. The issue is more what happens when “leaks” happen. Do you report on it or not? ESPN would have been all over that if this were NBA or MLB or NFL and a players camp leaked it. Again I’m kinda in the camp, as long as the leaks aren’t from the testing authorities than at that point if it gets “leaked” from the athletes camp side, it’s sorta “fair game” to report…I think that’s what I feel is fair.