I am signed up for IMMT next summer.
I was checking out the results from this past summer and particularly the run splits.
Almost everyone had a faster split for the 10km after the transition turnaround than they did for the first 21Km…what about these 10km that make them so quick or what is it about the second 10 Km that make them that much slower?
If I remember right, the first 10K are slightly downhill
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It sure is hilly. Even the “flat bit” on the petit train du nord is a false flat - - ever so slight decline on the out portion to the next timing mat. If I recollect you are not only running down hill after the half way timing mat, but the crowd support was pretty insane for a few miles after that which definitely helped and then there was a decent hill in there - - but the crowd support carries you through that and then it is the false flat downhill bit.
Trying to understand what section you are talking about, by ‘after the transition turnaround’ do you mean the first 10k of the second loop (which would be identical to the first 10k of the first loop too) or something else?
Either way, the start and end of each loop is pretty hilly. Then you get onto the trail which is false flats most of the way. In general, I don’t think the run course is killer hard, it’s definitely no St. George, but it is not an easy course either. I think times were fast this year in a big part thanks to the very cool weather on the run. On a hotter day, I could see the hills taking a far greater toll on the field than I witnessed this year.
Trying to understand what section you are talking about, by ‘after the transition turnaround’ do you mean the first 10k of the second loop (which would be identical to the first 10k of the first loop too) or something else?
Either way, the start and end of each loop is pretty hilly. Then you get onto the trail which is false flats most of the way. In general, I don’t think the run course is killer hard, it’s definitely no St. George, but it is not an easy course either. I think times were fast this year in a big part thanks to the very cool weather on the run. On a hotter day, I could see the hills taking a far greater toll on the field than I witnessed this year.
yes the way the splits are recorded it seems like the way out must be considerably easier than the way back. Most people seem to record an average pace of 10 to 15 seconds per KM faster for kms 21 to 31 than they did on the first 21 Km.
I don’t think we can look at the splits and judge anything from the splits. I am not exactly sure where the mat was for the so called 31k split. As far as I can tell, it was at the end of the petit train du Nord, but I am pretty sure this is NOT actually 10k from transition. It is less than 10k from transition because on the way back you have the following extras pieces that add up to a heck of a lot more than 1k
Out and back section from Old village of Tremblant…my guess is this alone is 1.5kSection on bike path off the road just past old village on the way back…probably adds 200mFinal climb just past swim exit to halfway up village and back down…another kilometer
So I THINK the “way back” is around 2.5 - 2.7 k longer than the “way out” from the 21k mat. So my feel is that the way our is around 9.3k , and the way back 11.8…or something along those lines.
Also the way back is net downhill. Yes, the petit train part is uphill, but once you get off it, there is a lot of downhill. The way we know 100% that it is new downhill on the way back is because the turnaround is a few meters away from Montee Ryan on the bike course which is a few hundred feet higher than the ski village where the finish line is.
So to summarize…don’t believe the label of the “turnaround” on ironman.com…and coming back is net downhill.
I’m fascinated to hear you say that because that was exactly my experience. Breaking the run down into roughly four 10k segments, the first 10k was steady and okay, the second 10k started to get tough and I walked more than I would have liked. I was afraid that the decline in my pace would be linear and I would be screwed on the second loop. Then after running down through the pedestrian village and feeling electrified by the crowds, the third 10k was completely unexpectedly awesome. I didn’t walk for at least 10k - it felt like a dream where you’re just trying not to wake up. I felt like I was reborn and couldn’t believe how fast I was running (I wasn’t running fast, of course, but you know what I mean). Then reality set in and the last 10k was as tough as always, but still not as much walking as on the first loop. So as others have said, the first 10k trends downhill, despite the initial rollers on the way to the old village. The return trip to the pedestrian village is conversely up most of the way, but you do get to a point where it’s pretty steadily down until the last two ‘big’ climbs (plus the cruel dip down and up from the last aid station at the beach club). Maybe others had the same ‘rebirth’ that I did after running through the pedestrian village/transition area at the end of the first loop.
I’m pretty sure the mat was at the turn-around at the end of the trail. My Garmin file puts that ~9.5 km from transition so your numbers are pretty close and would explain the discrepancy for sure. If you look at the results for the 70.3, the splits have the distance at 9.6 km and I assume the mat was also at the turn-around.
I think you’re correct, in fact I *feel *like I recall a mat there.
As far as the false flat goes, I know nothing about it. It is so subtle that I didn’t know it was there. I do, however, think that there is a real psychological reason for the PART 3 split being faster (if it is).
It seems that coming through the resort village refocuses one’s race. There is a point where the run course forks. Turn left, and you have 50 metres or so to the finish. Veer right and you have your second lap. The big race clock is right there for you to see. Faster people are veering left. The crowds are three deep. For many people, family members are right there yelling for them. Strangers are reading your race bib and saying your name when they cheer. You are running downhill through all of this. And the run course is now completely known to you. So you run…