I hear a lot about how tough the bike course in LP is. So how tough is the course? How many hills of how long on each lap do you need to worry about?
Is much tougher than IM california when it was a full length race?
cheers
Depends on who you ask…check out the profile on the IM USA site…you can lay it over the other courses…I never thought it was that hard
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I thought it was very challenging. I come from the rolling hills of Michigan so I cannot really prepare for the steep mountain climbs. It is easily the toughest course I have ever ridden to date.
I agree its really not that hard a bike course, until you start to run. What I mean is that you’ll hardly ever need your bail out gear and if you weren’t following the 112 with a marathon, the course would make a pretty pleasant ride. Its usually only when I start to run (or the facsimile thereof that I have used each of the past two years) that I really felt the cumulative effect of the climbing. This is coming from someone who is a very average biker (18MPH only) for this course.
The hardest part about the course is the long climb into town, the second time around. Those 9 miles the first time aren’t that bad, but the second time (the climbs are even named, for Christ’s sake!) they are awful.
And yes, the difficulty is compounded by the marathon that awaits you.
The last 9 miles (2 loops) have a few rollers, and 3 climbs (mama/baby/papa bear, i swear to god, that’s what they’re called). They are not too long, just steep, and redundant. And mentally tough, because when you get to the top of one, you can see the other one waiting for you…smiling at you.
This comment comports with what my friend told me who did it last year. He said he didn’t feel the bike until about mile 10 of the run. The one hill on the run is a bear too.
-Robert
I’ve done it three times and will be back for more in seven weeks. It’s tough, but not as tough as it would be if you don’t prepare for it.
On his Web site, Gordo Byrn outlines the course in good detail and offers tips and strategy. I find his observations to ring pretty true.
To me the worst part was the downhills. But my descending really sucks. I live in the flatest place on earth so there is nowhere to get a feel of what my bike will feel like at high speeds for 6 miles. The uphill into town sounds worse than it is. With appropriate gearing and patience it is very doable.
I did California both years it was a full IM and Lake Placid in 03.
The swim at LP is “easier” (relatively speaking) than the Marine boat harbor was at Camp P. LP is a straight shot out and back in fairly calm water, while there were some swells to deal with at the turnaround of IMCal.
At LP, you have the long transition run from the lake to T1, which adds at least a few minutes to your overall time.
While there’s no “San Mateo hill” at LP, the climbs do get to you. While the climb back into town is long but not that steep, people tend to forget about the climbs out of town at the beginning of each loop. It’s pretty easy to blow it on those since they’re earlier in the ride. In 2003, there were periods of heavy rain on the course. Coming through town on the second loop, I remember riding up a short hill against a 4 to 5 inch deep river of runoff from a deluge.
If you haven’t seen it, there’s a pretty good bike course description/recon over on Gordo’s site at: http://www.byrn.org/gtips/imlp.htm
On the run at California, there was only one short, steep hill, a few small inclines, and the run through the sand. At LP, there’s no sand run, but the descent less than a mile from the start is a quad buster. The return trips up that hill also take a lot out of you. The finish at LP is close to the mile 24 (or 25) marker that it’s tough to have to do that last mile out and back when you’re so close to finishing.
There’s a whole lot of atmosphere and small town village feel at LP that you didn’t have at California.
For me California was great, since it was a quick hour down the freeway from my house to the gates of Camp P., but despite the tougher course, the whole race experience at LP was way cooler.
Jeff
MARTY: Let’s talk about your reviews a little bit. Regarding ‘Intravenus de Milo’: “This tasteless cover is a good indication of the lack of musical invention within. The musical growth rate of this band cannot even be charted. They are treading water in a sea of retarded sexuality and bad poetry.”
NIGEL: That’s, that’s nit-picking, isn’t it?
I’ve only trained on the course… Planning to race it in 2006… While the bike mentally tough I think it’s about the 1 climb heading back into town on the first loop of the run, it’s short but hell is it steep then to think about it again on what mile 25 aye aye aye… That’s one run climb I hate to think about.
My bike time sucked but it was still quite a bit faster for me than the IMWI course. I found the first loop to be very enjoyable, not even pushing I still had a pretty good time , but the second loop was harder. For me, the second lap was made much harder due to outside factors and not as much as by the course itself. The course was hard but not as bad as some friends of mine made it out to be. Most of the climbs aren’t terribly steep but just very long, and you also have pretty long stretchs to recover between them. It may be difficult but there is a reason why this is one of the fastest filled IM races: its a very pretty area/course, they have the details of running the event pretty much down to a science, the spectators are great, and the town seems to really want you there. Have a great time…I wish I was going this year!!
If you train correctly IMLP is not that tough. If you don’t do the hills in your training then it is a royal pain in the A**.
I have done LP a few times in racing and training, and I have never done the Cali IM when it was an IM, but I can tell you the course in LP is a beautiful ride, but the end of the first loop/beginning of the second loop combination can be viewed as a grade that is 16 -17 miles long (from Wilmington to Mt. VanHoovendwhatsis just before the 10km descent into Keene). It is the last time past Whiteface on lap 2 and on into LP that you discover that there is a significant wind and what was a 15-18 mph gradual “false flat” on lap 1 has now become a big ol’ pain in the ass. It can be real easy to get a little wound out on the first loop.
Tough is relative… I think for me it’s not tough. But yet I have ridden that course so many times. I am there right NOW!!! The downhill is tough… for ME. The uphills are a breeze, again for me. The climbs are long and steady, it’s very easy to get in a rythm. Nothing out of the saddle. It is NOT a 9 mile uphill coming back after wilmington. It goes up, slightly down, many breaks and straight sections.
Not a 9 mile climb…um…I guess I agree…there is a steep part (two I think), for me the worst is after the last where you turn left back into the city proper, dont know why…just is. Kiss the course for me Marisol…I am going to miss it this year.
Funny, I know some others have said the uphills are steep, but I don’t agree. Some are longish (but not that long - just long enough that you’re ready to be done, but not killer), but none are all that steep. And yes, the 9 miles or so back to town - no way are they all uphill. Definitely some flatter, faster sections there. Not to say the second loop you won’t be feeling the climbing here, but it is not a true 9 mile climb with no breaks. In fact, I’m thinking (not having raced this course yet) that since there are breaks, it makes it easier to accidentally push to hard while climbing, causing you go blow up on the second loop or during the marathon from going out too hard without realizing it. Not sure if I’ll still think that after riding the course a bit more!
I do think the potential wind coming at you during the climb back to town could also be the factor that makes that section particularly hard, because then even the flat sections don’t seem so easy.
I don’t see where anyone mentioned the wind – the 9-10 miles back into town can be relatively easy if the wind is at your back, but the prevailing direction is in your face, which makes the second trip around the loop that much harder than the first.
All in all, though, LP and Penticton are the two best IM courses I’ve ever seen, period. Have fun with it!
-Mike
My time was not fast, but I did not think the course was that difficult. The hills are not that steep, but the last 12-miles took me about an hour because it was a long and very gradual uphill. I looked at my watch at mile-44 and thought my first 1/2 of the bike would be incredibly fast for me, but then it took an hour to do the last 12.
There are two somewhat steep (maybe 8% grade) 3-5 minutes climbs within the first 7-miles. Then you go downhill. Then its flat. Then there’s another 3-5 minute long climb. Then out and back and fairly flat. Then you climb very gradually for about an hour. I did not even notice the 3 named hills at the end of each loop. When I got done with “Papa Bear”, I thought I was only at “Baby Bear”, and the next thing I knew, I was back in town.
There’s a killer hill on the run - I recommend walking it.
“Is much tougher than IM california when it was a full length race?”
Well, it depends on the day you are having. I’ve done both, IM CAL in '01 and IMLP in both '00 and '04. Qualified at both Cal and '00 IMLP. The swim at Cal was a little goofy with the Z shape course and difficult sighting, but IMLP has a crazy crowded start and a long transition run. People say they like the IMLP swim, frankly I didn’t (and my swim times between the two were identical). No water exit at Cal on the loops.
The bike course in many ways are about equal in difficulty I beleive. Cal had a lot of technical narrow bike path stuff and rough surfaces as well as the “wall”. IMLP has the unpleasant finish climb up to T2. It really depends on how you are feeling on the day. Both races reward smart pacing. The IMLP run course is on paper, tougher, with the hills, but I think it was mentally easier than Cal. You should be fine if you are in good shape and execute on the day.
Good Luck!
Maybe I am in the minority, but MAN, I find the LP bike course really tough.
Aside from the Old World’s Toughest Tri in South Lake Tahoe, I have not been on a tougher Ironman bike course (granted, I have not raced Lanzarote or Embrunman). I’ve done LP 5 times and the best I have ever done on that course was 5:38 (if I recall correctly). At Ironman Canada (also done 5 times in various conditions), my worst was 5:39. My best at IMC was 5:17.
What makes LP tough is the series of climbs essentially starting in Wilmington heading all the way back into LP. Of the final 60K, 40K are uphill in some form. This usually means that you either have to back off the pace to digest food for the run, or you keep hammering, don’t digest and start the run with a bloated stomach and hope the food makes its way through as you run downhill past the ski jumps to River Road. Or due to the hills, you neglect to eat and start the marathon on an empty tank (many do this).
The best case scenario is that you can digest while hammering uphill at a moderately hard heartrate, but this is the minority. The reality, is that most dudes go >15 minutes slower on the second loop and essentially “lose the race” during that loop. Then the run becomes survival. The best manage their race day execution well, cruise up the hills and start the marathon with a relatively full tank of calories and can then bang out a sub 3:30 marathon (ie less than 5% of the field).
Dev