I did my first IM (USA) yesterday, and I saw a few “drafers,” and one blatent pack. I also saw 3 people pulled over getting penalties, so… I looked at the results today (on Ironmanlive.com) and I was surprised to see 44 of the top 100 finishers with and “X” in the penalty column – seems like a lot. Is this a mistake? Are these all drafting penalties?
Could be drafting, blocking, dropping a Gu wrapper, not mounting or dismouting the bike before or after the line, nudity, and on and on and on…
I was out there “racing” (unfortunately I couldn’t finish) but the ‘packs’ didn’t look that bad.
But the more penalties, the better.
Ironman Florida last year was like one long line of people, Lake Placid at least allowed for some separation.
LOL! Actually I think those “X’s” are for Kona Slots. 
That’s why there are so many in the top 100. LOL!!
LOL! I knew I was making some sort of mistake. I looked at the IMUSA site and the last column was “Penalties.” Then later in the day, I looked at the Ironmanlive site and assumed it meant the same thing.
Actually, I feel much better understanding that all the best athletes were not getting penalties.
“But the more penalties, the better.”
What kinda of rationale is behind that statement?
Could someone “in the know” comment on the GTG situation at CDA. In looking at the results…there are ZERO penalties. I’m assuming they aren’t noted simply b/c they are stand-downs. Could someone please confirm this…
thanks.
A lot of people are drafting (cheating) at these races. If there are a lot of penalties, then they are getting caught…if there aren’t (Half Ironman Florida) then they are not.
gimme a break, it was a stupid generalization but it’s been a long day/week/month/year…
‘Stupid generalizations’…welcome to Slowtwtich, right?
when reading the original post, I was laughing…darn, you picked on it before I did!
I was at IM CDA and raced. Here is what I saw and heard. The day before at race meeting Jimmy R.
talked tough on how they were going to enforce the
rules. Then after meeting PNF talked to all the
athletes that had questions and her comment was
they were going to be lenient on the calls. Ok …
what gives.
Race day, I get on the bike course and after
crossing the river about 10 miles into the ride I get
passed by several packs of riders. As I watch them
go by, within seconds it seemed like, GTG rides up
and by the pack and keep going. I saw this several
times during the day. That was some of the fastest
writing of penalties I have ever saw.
IMHO…I hear of no penalties at IM CDA. If there
were then please someone post them.
What I see happening is, they are going to make
IM racing more spectator friendly. With that, may the
best runner win. What you will have IF they go that
direction is participants in the parking lot arguing
who did what, which may lead to an ugly situation.
I still can not see the point of pulling over athletes
on the course to give them a penalty. Safety…
please. That is B.S. That is an accident waiting to
happen.
just my $.02 here
as a back of the packer on the bike in LP I saw the officials no less than 6 times during the bike. And they warned some folks around me about passing more quickly. Not me though since I was going in reverse
I would say they did a good job from where I sat but I am not privy to what is happening in the faster packs
M~
Perhaps that is correct…no penalties in CDA? Yikes. I also heard that from a USAT official a few weeks ago.
I “sorta” agree with their “discretion” of breaking up packs rather than just write down numbers. But, that certainly sends the wrong message. Not sure where I read it, but it did sounds like they handed out a couple penalties at LP.
Maybe they are just warming up their brake pads for Moo?
Also on this topic. IM CDA was I believe their second
race at Officiating ! So again, my thoughts are
that they are very green at this situation. They will
get better in time. All Officials go thru this, no one
walks into this part of the sport and are automatically
the best. Ain’t going to happen. I truey hope they
do well and get better, but sorry everyone, pulling
over a bike on a busy course is going to lead to an
accident.
Being that, tired of hearing the bitchers out there
complain of the rules and Officiating. Every sport has
rules and this sport has rules. WHY in the hell is it
so hard not to follow them ?
If we keep trying to drop the rules game, this sport
will be a wide open no rules free for all.
To me the end of the sport. The rules are simple
and not confinning.
Not venting on you Smitty8, just so tired of hearing
complaining that the rules are so unfair.
Please for those who hate the rules…find another
sport PLEASE, more room for the rest of us.
"If we keep trying to drop the rules game, this sport
will be a wide open no rules free for all.
To me the end of the sport. The rules are simple
and not confinning."
I have to disagree with you on this. I have been around this sport for a long time( 25 years) and personally, I think the rules and many other aspects ogf the sport are getting way to complicated.
Try this. The next time you are at a party( before you have had a few drinks) try and explain the rules of triathlon to someone who knows nothing about the sport. My guess is that within a couple of minutes, just as you are starting to get into the nuances of “blocking” and “drafting” you will loose them completely.
This was one of the reasons that the ITU started to allow drafting 10 years ago. It simplfied the sport to a huge degree. Indeed, insiders at the IOC had informed people at the ITU that the sport was too confusing and complicated. So the ITU said, fine it’s swim, bike and run, however you want and the first across the line wins. Everyone understands this. Everyone get’s this, both inside and outside the sport.
Now, I am not saying that drafting should be allowed in age-group racing. Given the bike handling skills and experience I see out there that would be a disaster. The problem in bike Ironman races is really a problem created by a lack of time and space - too many people, on too small road, in too short a period of time at certain times and places on the course.
Fleck
I’m not concerned about the micro, rather the macro. Using your logic, then CDA was the cleanest race in Ironman history!
Certainly not bitching about the rules…and I never bitch about the officiating, except when ZERO penalties are called during an Ironman race. It’s seems rather odd…
I’m all for “self-officiating”, which is perhaps the most vaque of the vaque…because I’m a vaque person by nature. For example, if someone where purposingly breaking the rules and trying to get an unfair advantage, I feel they deserve a stronger penalty versus someone naive. ;o) As a former official, I could tell the difference…which is usually determined by the mean look in their faces rather than smiles.
We agree to disagree here. For someone who has
been around the sport this long is to be respected.
You are an orginal triathlete in my view and I am
all ears around you veterans.
Ah, If I am at a party and have to explain the
rules to a person outside of this sport, no way am
I going to explain all the rules. That argument
can be used on every sport at every party. I was in
martial arts for 4 years and trying to explain that
to an outsider is a mute point.
What all athletes in this sport should do is take
some time and read the rules and understand
what they mean. If they do not understand them,
then they should ask questions. Most if not all
Officials will take time to explain them. I am
not telling them to read every rule on the sport
but the ones that mean alot, blocking, drafing,
position, traffic laws, abondioned equipment,
overtaken etc. Those would surely make an newbie
and us veterans understand how to race better
and stay out of trouble. I have talked to so many
athletes and ask them “have you read the rules”
and I hear NO. Take time and read them.
Yes you are right, IM courses are congested and
need improvement. That is WTC department. I hope
they do this soon because the popularity of the
sport is going to make it even worse in time.
Sorry Smitty, did not mean to imply you were
bitching on the rules.
Agree with you on the ZERO penalties called at IM
races.
The only problem with self Officiating, but teach
and inform me here, is whoever they may be, do
they have the experience ? Could an RD put anyone
in charge of the rules ? and now we have someone
with absolutely no idea what they are getting in to,
calling penalties.Now everyone will be raising hell on
the calls.
I also agree with stonger penalties on blatant
infractions, but I can not change the rules, just
enforce them. Maybe in time that will change.
It is nice to hear compliments at races on the job
we do. Not perfect here, but I do my very best to
be pro-active and stern on the rules.
I guess I still go back on, whenever I do a new sport
that I am going to stay with, take the time to read,
ask questions, ask friends and learn as much as I
can on the rules.
Smitty8, thanks for being a past part of
Officiating.
Oh…I got out of officiating as fast as I got into it! (was hurt that year) You couldn’t pay me enough to be a USAT or GTG official. Let me tell you about all the “issues” behind the scenes…it’s painful. You don’t want to get me started. Okay, you did. The USAT LTF circus stunt with the pro’s helmets was ludicrous. You figure they would have tell them know at the meeting. Then again, they did tell them about 30 minutes before race start rather than wait until they mounted their bikes…
My land of self-officiating is just a dream or utopian community that doesn’t exist except when you and your training buddies are out having a good time and finish line is your driveway.
For many, the race gets in their way of having fun.
I see your view on Officiating and why you got out.
I think and believe if you say all of it up front
before the race, answer questions you have a better
chance of minimal penalties.
I believe if you are the Official at a race, to be there
for the athletes and explain the rules situation
before race start. Most of them appreciate this
I think.
I like pre-race meetings. Makes my job easier.
This sport is starting to look silly:
Ironman Florida last year. The appeals meeting with the race offcials to question/argue calls against athletes. I overheard all of this. An athlete has been DQ’d for drafting. Their is an ensuing discussion about what she was wearing( keep in mind all of this is now more than 24 hours AFTER the event). Some debate about colours. The USAT offcial then says, if you can show me your uniform, I will reconsider the call! Athlete disappears for a while, to find the race uniform. Shows up a short while later. There is then a lengthy discussion about what colour the uniform actually is - red, red/orange, a reddish brown and so on. I don’t know what happened beyond that as the person I was waiting for showed up in the hotel lobby and we headed to the bar. However, I was left with the impression that this was a rather odd way of conducting things and that the sport looked rather silly. Who knows if the athlete just brought down a different uniform? Did the official actually get the ID right on the colour while picking the person out from a pack of 10, 20 who knows riders. It’s now 24 hours later. The lighting in the hotel lobby was dark not like the light of day in the noon day sun and so on.
I was later told that this process had been going on after every IM race recently and it was becoming a huge headache.
Fleck
LMAO. Yes, truly sad.