How responsible do you think the IM organizers are for making an IM event safe for its participants? Is it the athletes’ sole responsibility to watch out for darkness, chuckholes, traffic patterns, water conditions? If you’ve done one or more IM, did you feel safe enough participating in it/them? Just curious b/c I just signed up for my first IM in 2007 (IMFL) and I’m a wuss.
I think the organizers are overall are doing a very good job in making events as safe as possible.
However it is always a good idea to keep the brain turned on and be cautious and alert (This, of course, is generally a good idea in life.).
But don´t worry too much, I never felt un-safe in any of the IMs.
Axel
Thanks, Axel. I’ve done lots of marathons and a couple of centuries with no problem, but putting them with a swim and adding darkness and two thousand other participants is a little mentally overwhelming at this point.
I think it would be the end of triathlon if we started getting PC on everything. Can you imagine worry about pot holes, turns, cracks,wet roads, wind, heat . I just worry about where things like this would go. I can see race directors saying to heck with it.
I think it should be made safe but the athletes have some responsibility. The grassroot races are where most people race. How many small races are there a year. They raise money, bring families together to spend a healthy day, bring interest to the sport. I worry if we have to many liabilities race directors will give it up. Races should be safe but "things happen"
If you´ve done other long races you will be fine, I´m sure. If the swim-start worries you, then just play it safe there: Stay on the side, keep out of trouble. It´s not decided in the swim anyway(luckily, as I swim like a rock) :-))
Have fun, enjoy the training and look forward to the new challenge!
Axel
yup, you hit it on the head. swim start. swim finish. waves. critters. current. people thrashing around. I see the times people are posting for IMFL, and I’d be lucky to make it before the cutoff at this point. Took two TI courses, done a lot of scuba, done maybe 25 tris (longest was oly, but signed up for HIMFL 2007), signed up with a swim coach, in the pool five days out of seven, and hoping like heck that one years’ solid swim training will make me seaworthy in the ocean but anxious about floating away to Timbuktu.
thanks for the reassurance. I don’t suppose there’s any way the IM organization could keep a weak athlete safe anyway, so it’s best just to make yourself as strong as possible and hope for the best flying solo but prepared to meet the worst head-on.
and hoping like heck that one years’ solid swim training will make me seaworthy in the ocean but anxious about floating away to Timbuktu.
Not a bad choice…Timbuktu. Send us a card when you get there! 
Axel
In the IMNA races that I have done, I think they did a good job in course safety, but I think it is always up to the athlete to be responsible for themselves.
The only way you will ever be 100% safe is to sit in your home and do nothing. It’s funny to me that people will worry about a triathlon after one death, and think nothing of driving to the race, where you have an infinitely higher chance of getting killed.
There’s already way too much fear being spread around, we don’t have to add more by fearing death in a triathlon.
I wrote an editorial about this topic a few years ago after another IM swim accident that was also fatal.
Here it is: http://www.bikesportmichigan.com/editorials/0000010.shtml
Bottom line: If you have to pay the price for the risk in the currency of death or injury, you are responsible for your safety.
Currents, heart attacks, car accidents, animal attacks (dogs, sharks, jellyfish), lightening strikes, crashes on a dangerous corner- you pay the price for those things if they occur with an injury or a death.
The race director and production company have an incumbent responsibilty to use reasonable and customery caution in preparing the course. That doesn’t mean they are entirely- or even partly- repsonsible for your safety. You are.
If you show up to the race and the water looks too dangerous for your taste, don’t swim. That’s it.
Don’t for one second presume that even though you have assessed the circumstances as too risky that some other entity, i.e. the race organization, has bestowed some magic power on the course rendering the lightening harmless, the sharks toothless and the rip tides benign. It doesn’t happen.
Ultimately you pay the price if it goes bad, so you’re responsible for making reasonably sure it doesn’t.
At what point does the size of a swim field become “unsafe enough” to at least consider something other than one giant start?
Starting 2300 swimmers all-at-once is irresponsible.
“Starting 2300 swimmers all-at-once is irresponsible.”
The consensus of 2300 swimmers who *did *start don’t agree with that.
This is not directed at anyone or any situation in particular.
I equate it to snow skiing. The ski patrol does a reasonable job to mark things, etc. to make participants aware of potential hazards. However, there is no way every stump, rock or whatever can be marked and therefore, at the end of the day, every skiier is responsible for there own safety.
Also, if it says Double Black Diamond, and you aren’t good enough to safely get down a Double Black Diamond, then don’t do it just so you can tell you friends about it at the lodge. And then when you get your self in trouble complain that the slope was too steep with too many trees and rocks and very dangerous and should somehow be made easier so EVERYONE can do a Double Black Diamond.
IM is a Double Black Diamond of endruance sports and if you aren’t comfortable with what all it entails (including the full contact swim), then perhaps you should take responsibility for your own safety and settle for the black and blue slopes of the sport and not rely on the ski patrol to bail you out when YOU get yourself in over your head. No pun intended, seriously.
It seems that a few simple changes like more boat support and wave starts would improve the safety of the swim a lot. Are these unreasonable requests?
I was in the Swim at IMFL this year. It was a little rough but no worse than wave swims at a local oly with 75 people in my wave. I don’t think we can blame the mass start for anything. There is not always someone to blame.
“The consensus of 2300 swimmers who did start don’t agree with that.”
i think there’s a death on an IMNA race once every 30,000 or 40,000 race occurrences. is that high or low? i don’t know. but i am surprised that these deaths in triathlon – IMNA or otherwise – seem to occur during the swim (but i’m not surprised that heart attacks occur in the swim). but i think it’s a stretch to say any such swim deaths occur because of a mass start. no real evidence of that. my understanding is that this man was a long way into the swim, like an hour into it.
anyone who contends that mass start swims are inherently dangerous ought also to conclude that mass start runs are dangerous. i suspect it’s equally likely that someone would get trampled to death after tripping during a 25,000 person marathon start.
i would be interested to know from a cardiologist who’s an expert in such things what might cause stress on the heart during the swim. might it be the back pressure against the lungs while holding one’s breath? (if one does not slowly exhale with the head underwater). i don’t know.
but i do think it’s worth pointing out that the HR during the swim is probably higher than during any other part of the event. you don’t know this because you feel less distress during the swim, and you’re not wearing a HR monitor while swimming. but the distress you feel later in the event is not HR-related. so i can see why somebody is prone to a heart attack during the swim, and not the bike or run. i suspect this is why our tri-related heart attack deaths occur usually during the swim.
in any case, tom is right, fear of the swim start is an easy solution to fix for you the individual person – and instead of debating the merits of swim start options i just fix the problem. i’m a pretty good swimmer, but i still start on the edge of the field. it’s not for the sake of safety, i just don’t like to get beat up and there are a lot of folks in the water who don’t behave courteously. if it’s an issue for you, start on the side. if you’re a bad swimmer, start near the back.
No, of course not. It is the larger picture I am concerned about,. The slippery slope so to speak. The event is what it is and it is us who should prepare ourselves for it, not the other way around. An Ironman is an extreme event and the participants are responsible for the consequences of participating in an extreme event.
To stay with the same analogy as before, if a guy hucks himself off a 50 footer on the back side of Jackson Hole, whos fault is it if something bad happens? Would more more ski patrol prevented the accident? Instead, I think think it starts with the guy. It is his responsibility to a) decide whether or not he has the skill level necessary to pull it off with a good chance of success, and b) accept the risk he is taking by participating in an extreme activity.
Wow Slowman, I think it’s a huge stretch to say that it is equally likely to get trampled to death in a marathon than to die in a mass swim. If someone loses consciousness in a swim it seems like it would be a lot easier to not notice them as you swim by than someone who passes out right on the ground in front of you on a run. Especially if they sink under the water and are in a large group of people who are splashing around.
But with an IM swim start, you have literally thousands of inexperienced swimmers. This has nothing to do with “getting in over your head”,
This is where we disagree. This is exactly my point!! If you are an inexperienced swimmer who might not be that comfortable in open water surounded by hundereds of people, shouldn’t you reconsider whether or not you are ready for an event which features a freaking 2.4 mile open water ocean swim with a mass start?!? That’s what the event IS and it is each person’s responsibilty prepare themselves for it! Not the other way around. Don’t huck yourself off that cliff unless you are ready and comfortable doing so.
I am in no way an “experienced” swimmer by competition swim standards, but I have lived on a lake and been in and around water since I can remember and am extremely comfortable in open water. If that wasn’t the case, then I would have hadd to really think about my ability and comfort level with this part of the event.
I think most people would agree with this. I’m a newbie, but I think the most important thing a race organizer can do is ensure that they can treat injuries as soon as possible. That means having medical response teams at various points of the run/bike and having lots of lifeguards out in the water on the swim. Also, having a wave start would increase access to injured swimmers.