I unfortunately had a close family member die a few days before an IM event. Was essentially told that since the family member did not die in accordance with the refund notice guidelines established by IM, there’s no refund or transfer of the registration fee. Has this always been the case, or an example of a colder, corporate IM that I hear folks talking about? I appreciate that the refund notice period must be strictly adhered to and managed fairly, but I personally would make an exception in such a case where the IM athlete has no control and is already experiencing a significant loss. Other “tragedies” like injuries that broadly fit this criteria should of course not be open to refunds, although I have heard athletes argue hard for this too :-). Other than the principle involved, probably not worth writing about, but certainly doesn’t give me a such a great feeling about a sport and event that one makes such a significant life commitment to.
Sorry to hear about your family member - but WTC is not known for its refund compassion - so I am afraid your money is gone.
My condolences for your loss! WTC are notoriously strict in their adherence to their refund (or lack thereof) policy. There are plenty of threads here on ST about this. Very sorry about your situation!
Sorry for your loss. I know of one person last year who was able to transfer IM entry to another race due to a life changing event (can’t recall exactly what it was). Might try that route (probably won’t work, but you never know)?
I was talking to a lady on the flight over to Kona last year. She was very excited about doing her first Ironman.
Two days later I saw her crying in a restaurant so I went over to her to see if she had been injured and not able to race.
She explained that her girlfriend’s mother had just died and she was flying to New Zealand for the funeral. She also mentioned that she had just been over to the registration area in the King Kam hotel to see if anything could be done about getting a refund.
The answer: “Sorry, no”.
WTC doesnt care. Well let me rephrase, I dont think they want you to miss the race for injury/sickness/family death etc., but they arent really going to do much to help you in the event that something like that happens. They dont care if we get our panties in a wad and storm off and never do another IM race again, because 2 more people are bidding to get our spot. So its simply a supply and demand basically. I also think they dont really want to deal with the can of worms if they start allowing more and more refunds. I’m sure some WTC buddy buddy has gotten a refund but some Joe Blow aint going to get it (99% sure he wont). WTC is the Superbowl of IM events and they basically dictate the rules not the customer (because at this point the customer is going along with everything WTC does because we are able to get what we want, “I can be an Ironman”).
I understand these are tough things. BUT, when you signed the contract, it stated NO REFUNDS. So, why is this so hard to understand? There are lots of things that if you buy a “ticket”, and are not able to go, you lose your money.
I do not believe it has anything to do with any RD “caring”. If you open the door, it is impossible to close, which is why you signed a contract which says NO REFUNDS. I have lost more money on races that I signed up early for and was not able to go for lots or reasons. It was gone once I wrote the check, whether I raced or not. It is just part of the sport, which is why I no longer sign up early for any race unless I am basically forced to because it sells out, and then I know if I cannot make it, I made a donation to say thanks to the RD for putting on the race.
Terribly sorry for your loss. WTC takes from the very meaning of The Ironman with each and every slap to their own kind with that no refund even in case of death nonsense and it makes me think twice about the their own slogan, my sig. Greed is Possible is what it should read.
I’m so sorry.
No I understand when it says No Refund, You dont get one or expect to get one. What I’m saying is WTC doesnt care to change or want to work on that policy. It’s just a simply straight forward policy more or less because its easy for them. Why open up a can of worms when X guy says, “Well my mom died”, and than Y says, “well I have a sprained ankle”, and than Z says, “well i just want my money back”.
No refund is an easy policy because they dont have to deal with the PR of figuring out who should get a refund and who shouldnt, etc. It has everything to do with a RD caring. They want to make it as easy for them as possible (and thats not condemning them for that attitude, it’s basically an business decision they have made). So yes they really dont want to worry about having the headache of hearing from people about wanting an refund. Yes they probaly still get people asking for them, but than they simply can say “NO, read the policy”.
All races I sign up for, not just WTC, have the same NO REFUND policy. So, why pick on WTC who is no different than USAT or ITU or my local Tri.
Last I checked with my reading comprehension skills, we are addressing the WTC/IM policy and not any other policies. If you want to address others I will. And yes pretty much every RD organization has the same policy. However, it’s easier to lose $60 dollars to your local tri race, but when a customer doesnt get the refund for $500+ dollar race, it kinda bums them out(even if the rules say NO refunds). The tough thing is that I’m guessing 80% of the people asking for a refund with an legit injury/family emergency would turn around the next few years and still PAY to do the race.
you would be a real ironman if did the ironman despite the death. I would give a refund to anybody whose mum/dad/brother/sister/spouse/child died. Rest of the members of the family don’t count.
Last I checked with my reading comprehension skills, we are addressing the WTC/IM policy and not any other policies. If you want to address others I will.
WTC should be setting examples in humility being The Ironman. It doesn’t mean a thing in the way that they represent it other than greed and they shatter peoples hopes dreams with thier greed. Like you said, for every one single contestant who might need to pull out there are two others waiting to pay to get in so what’s the deal? They want to keep the money from the person who can’t make it due to death and also allow for that spot to open up which the next contestant will pay for so they get twice the money for one spot. Sick.
you would be a real ironman if did the ironman despite the death. I would give a refund to anybody whose mum/dad/brother/sister/spouse/child died. Rest of the members of the family don’t count.
you don’t know what each family consists of, who represents whom to one another in that family. many uncles mean more than many fathers, many aunts more than many mothers and so on and so on so that isn’t right IMO.
Luckily I no longer need to prove I am a real Ironman and also will be giving the eulogy at the funeral, so the race isn’t in the cards. A lot of good comments have been made on this thread and it’s ultimately a WTC business decision. This policy of course is partly driven by their interpretation of supply and demand. There is certainly is a scenario where, given demographic and economic challenges, as well as mismanagement of the brand (I put this policy in that category frankly), the private equity investors behind IM will end up selling the brand back to athletes who care about what IM really should be/can be.
I also think it’s totally a customer service decision. If your a small time RD with a race that your having to build, your probaly more than willing to work with a customer to get them a refund/race transfer. I’ve read numerous occasions where you break your leg at your local tri race and the RD has worked with you.
But if your selling out race after race, its just easier for them to say NO REFUND, and leave it at that. Even if it means 4-6% of the racers miss the race for a legit reason (injury/death, etc.). So if they do lose customers, a race company like WTC can basicaly overcome that lose (in terms of customer not coming back/bad mouthing said company) because they have more demand for their races. Hence, why they are alot more stern and firm with their NO refund policy.
But if your selling out race after race, its just easier for them to say NO REFUND, and leave it at that. Even if it means 4-6% of the racers miss the race for a legit reason (injury/death, etc.). So if they do lose customers, a race company like WTC can basicaly overcome that lose (in terms of customer not coming back/bad mouthing said company) because they have more demand for their races. Hence, why they are alot more stern and firm with their NO refund policy.
That just makes The Ironman that much more impersonal and meaningless, IMO.
I’m about to change my sig after I go through a box of kleenex. Sad, I thought and wanted to believe so much that they stood for something within the realm of humanity, expecting them to be leaders of it but I guess it’s just Universal Sports that makes them out to be like that.
the money was spent by you a long time ago. just forget about it. it’s not the money, it’s the principle and that’s not worth getting upset about. you can’t change people. control how you feel.
Well yes and no. To the guy who wants to take a notch off his bucket list, and the soccer mom who watches it on NBC and starts drooling, they see it as this organization that allows them to fulfill dreams. So give WTC credit there, they know how to milk the system, because I think a large majority of the tri population really doesnt care who WTC is, they simply want to get their IM groove on and be treated as if they are important. Only when something like a major disappoint happens to them, do they then think WTC is this big bad meanie of an organization (even when they sign up under those rules that they are bitching about).
So while I agree that it can get impersonal and seem like it’s all about business, lets face it. Thats what it is. So if that makes them impersonal, so be it, but with it being about a business, they also have created an great product that is able to please ALOT of people.
I guess if we really want to get back to the meaning of “Ironman”, we’d all simply get a few of our friends, set out a course on some random Saturday and see who would win.
Doing the right thing is smart business. I am concerned that WTC is devaluing the notion of IM that many of us pursue with passion and integrity. They let pelotons on the bike course at IM Florida, but then tell you it’s your bad luck if your father dies a few days before the race. It’s of course the owners’ call, but such policies can make their business model much more susceptible to economic/other challenges as well as new competitors. There is not an unlimited supply of 45 year old accountants out there that have no problem with the race fee and are excited and proud to finish an IM in around 17 hours. Demographics and economics would suggest that universe is shrinking.