Surprised to see that Texas is listed as the championship site again for 2018 considering, i think, they were the site for 16 and 17. Tremblant I think was only for 2 years and was New York or Lake Placid it for 1 year?
Surprised to see that Texas is listed as the championship site again for 2018 considering, i think, they were the site for 16 and 17. Tremblant I think was only for 2 years and was New York or Lake Placid it for 1 year?
2011 (first year of the idea of championships; though they called it US Champs) - Texas
2012 - NYC
2013 & 14 - Tremblant (becomes "North American Champs)
2015 through present - Texas
But I believe the goal was always to find a permanent home for the race. Tremblant was an odd choice for a couple reasons. It was AFTER the first pro cut off for Kona slots (end of July). So basically, it had an outsize impact on those last 10 slots. Plus it’s also really close to Kona as compared with Frankfurt/Brazil/South Africa. And so you had a championship race that, relatively speaking, had a weak field as compared with the other championship races.
If NYC had been a long term race, which was perhaps unlikely in hindsight, it would have made sense to keep it there. But when NYC folded, they needed to find a race that wanted to host it, and Tremblant stepped up. But I think it never really made sense to have a championship so close to Kona. So I think everyone wanted to have it moved back to the Woodlands.
I love the Tremblant course, and - personally - I’d love the see the 140.6 on the June date for the 70.3 and to have it host the championship, and then put the 70.3 on the August date of the 140.6, but that’s not nearly as simple as it might seem.
The Woodlands is a great community for the race, no argument there. I just would like to see a bit of a harder course. With the exception of Cairns, the course record at all the championship races is sub-8, all on the back of extremely fast and flat bike courses.
One big challenge is that the community has to want to host a regional championship race. And then there are all sorts of other behind the scenes concerns.
Anyway, I think it’s going to be in The Woodlands for the foreseeable future.
Thanks for the insight Jordan.
On a somewhat related note, Do you think there is any chance they move Woodlands a little earlier in the season to ensure wetsuits?
Why they wouldn’t rotate the thing is beyond me.
When you keep championship course static (Regional and WC) you effectively make the decision to favour a certain type of athlete who excels on that type of course.
Thanks for the insight Jordan.
On a somewhat related note, Do you think there is any chance they move Woodlands a little earlier in the season to ensure wetsuits?
No. It’s related to daylight. The pro men were sent of at 6:25. Sunrise was at 6:40 (maybe even 6:45). It was barely light enough to see the first buoy at race start. And if it had been foggy or overcast - certainly a possibility, it would have been impossible to see. Move it earlier, and that problem becomes magnified. If the race is two or three weeks earlier - say first weekend in April, it’s definitely dark at race start. No way you can start that race at 6:25. But pushing the start time back becomes a problem because they have to close the Hardy Toll Road. And they want to close that for as little time as possible. Keeping the Hardy Toll Rd closed for another 30min would be, from what I gather, virtually impossible.
The weather issues alone would have made it unlikely. But the daylight issue makes it truly impossible.
Certainly this is not an official statement from Ironman by any means; I’m no longer a “pro ambassador.” But daylight was an issue even on the late April date. And I know from other early and late season races that daylight is often the single most important issue with regards to race start. You just can’t start a race when it’s dark; water safety won’t allow it.
Surprised to see that Texas is listed as the championship site again for 2018 considering, i think, they were the site for 16 and 17. Tremblant I think was only for 2 years and was New York or Lake Placid it for 1 year?
2011 (first year of the idea of championships; though they called it US Champs) - Texas
2012 - NYC
2013 & 14 - Tremblant (becomes "North American Champs)
2015 through present - Texas
But I believe the goal was always to find a permanent home for the race. Tremblant was an odd choice for a couple reasons. It was AFTER the first pro cut off for Kona slots (end of July). So basically, it had an outsize impact on those last 10 slots. Plus it’s also really close to Kona as compared with Frankfurt/Brazil/South Africa. And so you had a championship race that, relatively speaking, had a weak field as compared with the other championship races.
If NYC had been a long term race, which was perhaps unlikely in hindsight, it would have made sense to keep it there. But when NYC folded, they needed to find a race that wanted to host it, and Tremblant stepped up. But I think it never really made sense to have a championship so close to Kona. So I think everyone wanted to have it moved back to the Woodlands.
**I love the Tremblant course, and - personally - I’d love the see the 140.6 on the June date for the 70.3 and to have it host the championship, and then put the 70.3 on the August date of the 140.6, but that’s not nearly as simple as it might seem. **
The Woodlands is a great community for the race, no argument there. I just would like to see a bit of a harder course. With the exception of Cairns, the course record at all the championship races is sub-8, all on the back of extremely fast and flat bike courses.
One big challenge is that the community has to want to host a regional championship race. And then there are all sorts of other behind the scenes concerns.
Anyway, I think it’s going to be in The Woodlands for the foreseeable future.
Marc and I have had the discussion a bunch of times. From a pure age grouper field and selling out the race, I’m contending that there is a lack of June racing and we will get a ton of Americans coming up to do a June IM in Tremblant and then free up summer for families. I believe the organizers in Tremblant are concerned that Canadians won’t sign up for a June IM due to lack of good weather riding to prepare. I think a 75 slot race in June in Tremblant adds 800-1000 Americans who otherwise would not come, because a combo of KQ chances and the June date. Will 1500 Canadians and other Americans sign up for a June date than wait around for an August race elsewhere? I think so.
The 70.3 in Tremblant will sell out whenever you have it. Aug or June makes zero diff. You could even sell an Aug 70.3 + next year June 140.6 package to tie things together. That’s basically what you will have in Lake Placid now (Sep 70.3, July next year 140.6).
I’d personally love it if they flipped the dates and bid for the NA Championship when the contract with Woodlands expires. But I do like the event in Woodlands too. A June date for a championship also gives us northern folks a bit more time to prepare on the road, but if you’re at the pointy end, you really can’t use that as an excuse. Trainer prep is almost perfect for IM Texas and more so with the new course.
And I know from other early and late season races that daylight is often the single most important issue with regards to race start. You just can’t start a race when it’s dark; water safety won’t allow it.
Which makes wonder what they are going to do for Ironman Louisville this year.
With boulder now being earlier, why not make boulder the NA championship?
It’ll be light enough by 7:15. Guessing same as they have done in AZ?
Thanks for the insight Jordan.
On a somewhat related note, Do you think there is any chance they move Woodlands a little earlier in the season to ensure wetsuits?
No. It’s related to daylight. The pro men were sent of at 6:25. Sunrise was at 6:40 (maybe even 6:45). It was barely light enough to see the first buoy at race start. And if it had been foggy or overcast - certainly a possibility, it would have been impossible to see. Move it earlier, and that problem becomes magnified. If the race is two or three weeks earlier - say first weekend in April, it’s definitely dark at race start. No way you can start that race at 6:25. But pushing the start time back becomes a problem because they have to close the Hardy Toll Road. And they want to close that for as little time as possible. Keeping the Hardy Toll Rd closed for another 30min would be, from what I gather, virtually impossible.
The weather issues alone would have made it unlikely. But the daylight issue makes it truly impossible.
Certainly this is not an official statement from Ironman by any means; I’m no longer a “pro ambassador.” But daylight was an issue even on the late April date. And I know from other early and late season races that daylight is often the single most important issue with regards to race start. You just can’t start a race when it’s dark; water safety won’t allow it.
On your point about daylight, if they had IM in Tremblant on June 21ish, that’s around the longest day you can get. Count on the sun up before 5 am and down after 9 pm. Realistically I just checked that the official sunrise is 5:08 and sunset 8:52 pm. You can add 30 min of usable twilight on each side from a race management perspective! So we’re only talking about 2.5 hours of needing lighting of sorts. Pretty well the entire morning Tzone set up routine would need minimal lighting
With boulder now being earlier, why not make boulder the NA championship?
Because there’s only 1200 registered for it. They can’t make the championship race one of the least attended races on the continent.
With boulder now being earlier, why not make boulder the NA championship?
Because there’s only 1200 registered for it. They can’t make the championship race one of the least attended races on the continent.
True but it could be a good way to get entries up for boulder with the increased slots. But then who knows what would happen to Texas.
And I know from other early and late season races that daylight is often the single most important issue with regards to race start. You just can’t start a race when it’s dark; water safety won’t allow it.
Which makes wonder what they are going to do for Ironman Louisville this year.
A lot of Ironman races in Europe have 16 hour cut-offs. Problem solved…move Texas to March.
We all know August is quite late for to qualify for Kona. Do you know why don’t they count August races for next year?
With boulder now being earlier, why not make boulder the NA championship?
Because there’s only 1200 registered for it. They can’t make the championship race one of the least attended races on the continent.
I somewhat assumed that they declared some races “Championship” to help with attendance. I hadn’t considered the daylight factor and the timing for Kona issue.
Dev I really like the idea of the full at Tremblant in June, primarily for the kids and summer holiday logistics. Please continue to use your influence an sway Marc.
(and maybe if the full Tremblant moves to June we could see the full Muskoka come back in late Aug / early Sept?)
Dev I really like the idea of the full at Tremblant in June, primarily for the kids and summer holiday logistics. Please continue to use your influence an sway Marc.
(and maybe if the full Tremblant moves to June we could see the full Muskoka come back in late Aug / early Sept?)
I THINK that the only way a June IM in Tremblant would work is if Marc and Dominique think they can pull in a huge extra group of American racers. I think the concern would be that Canadian racers would be less likely to sign up and thus a lower chance of sellout. Maybe another way would be a Muskoka 70.3 in the 3rd week of June and IM Tremblant in early July around the same date at IM Frankfurt. Then you get a potential North American Championship right at the start of the summer and I THINK that local Canadian athletes would be less scared to sign up for an early July IM knowing they have all of May and June to ride in good weather. That still helps WTC early summer “schedule” and hopefully would sell out Tremblant. Right now a North America Championship in April hurts the northern athletes in terms of prep, but like I said, for the pointy end, it really does not matter what time of year the IM is in…the smell of Kona slots and guys and girls will be in prime shape. You could put North America championships in Florida or Hawaii in January and everyone would be in A race shape!
Dev I really like the idea of the full at Tremblant in June, primarily for the kids and summer holiday logistics. Please continue to use your influence an sway Marc.
(and maybe if the full Tremblant moves to June we could see the full Muskoka come back in late Aug / early Sept?)
I THINK that the only way a June IM in Tremblant would work is if Marc and Dominique think they can pull in a huge extra group of American racers. I think the concern would be that Canadian racers would be less likely to sign up and thus a lower chance of sellout. Maybe another way would be a Muskoka 70.3 in the 3rd week of June and IM Tremblant in early July around the same date at IM Frankfurt. Then you get a potential North American Championship right at the start of the summer and I THINK that local Canadian athletes would be less scared to sign up for an early July IM knowing they have all of May and June to ride in good weather. That still helps WTC early summer “schedule” and hopefully would sell out Tremblant. Right now a North America Championship in April hurts the northern athletes in terms of prep, but like I said, for the pointy end, it really does not matter what time of year the IM is in…the smell of Kona slots and guys and girls will be in prime shape. You could put North America championships in Florida or Hawaii in January and everyone would be in A race shape!
Interesting, but I’m guessing that Tremblant (the Resort) doesn’t need (or want to disrupt) to pull people into the area in the summer because they have a pretty decent golf & cottage clientele. Maybe now that Triathlon training has become more ingrained they could pull it off…
One last thing Dev, it would be interesting to see how many Canucks did (/do) IM Texas every year, because as you say, many of us are training indoors anyway.
Perhaps my biggest concern for a June IM in Tremblant is the mosquitoes…
And I know from other early and late season races that daylight is often the single most important issue with regards to race start. You just can’t start a race when it’s dark; water safety won’t allow it.
Which makes wonder what they are going to do for Ironman Louisville this year.
A lot of Ironman races in Europe have 16 hour cut-offs. Problem solved…move Texas to March.
Some might even be 15, possibly the old I’M Japan? I’m not positive about that.
Pretty sure that wouldn’t fly here. I think there would be an uproar, my guess is that plenty of American triathletes think 17 hours is in the Constitution.