I was just reading through the Athlete guide that is online and it states that the 17 hour cutoff begins when the first age group athlete enters the water. I thought that the past 2 years it was when the final AG athlete started. Will this mean line ups for the “close to cutoff” crowd really early on race morning? Any IM Lou veterans remember how long it took everyone to get in the water last year? If it takes 3/4 hour that could be huge for your 16.5 hour ironman competitor.
One other question … for people that have done IMLou and IMLP, how would you compare the bike courses in terms of difficulty?
Are you seriously wondering if it might take 45 minutes to get everyone into the water?
Well I believe in another post took 43 minutes last year and this year there are 1000 more athletes so unless they go 3 at a time or 2 at a time it will be a bit longer than 45 minutes.
" Are you seriously wondering if it might take 45 minutes to get everyone into the water?"
No, that is a given. If you read the athlete guide it says that the cutoff is based on the first swimmer start which means that the slower athletes will likely want to be first in the water and since they seed you by when you show up, how early will people start lining up to ensure they are not the 2500th person to start?
Re: the swim, check (latest to oldest) http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?post=2447566 , http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?post=2419267 , http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?post=2374291 for some info - there's probably a bunch more, those are just the threads I replied to
These indicate that the 17 hour time is from the last swimmer (I’ve read all of these). The athlete guide says it is from the time the first swimmer enters the water which contradicts all the info I’ve seen about the swim start and cutoff times.
Last year it was definitely from the last swimmer. They specifically discussed it at the pre-race meeting to get there early if you needed extra time. Based upon what you say the brochure says, I’d e-mail the RD to see if they changed it.
I concur that it is the LAST swimmer. I raced there both in 2007 and 2008. In 2007 I was in the water about 28 mins after the start and last year I was in at 39 minutes after the start. Also, check the results, there were a number of finishes with times more than 17 hours. It is just a unique part of the race in Louisville.
RULES CHANGED THIS YEAR: Here is the message I just sent out to a bunch of athletes I’m coaching for IM KFC.
The athlete’s guide for IM LOU came out today. Those of you who are racing at Louisville should download a copy and get familiar with the event details. Here is the link to the guide: http://www.ironmanlouisville.com/09LVAthGuide.pdf.
New this year was the publication of the cut-off times throughout the day.
Ironman is enforcing the 17 hour cutoff rule in a rather strange way at this race. In past years, the 17 hour clock started when the last swimmer hit the water. From reading the 2009 athlete guide, it appears that the only person who will have 17 hours to complete the race will be the first person in the water. All other participants will have less time to make the final cut-off at midnight. If you think you will need every minute you can get, you will need to be in line for the swim very early. How early is hard to tell. You may want to have a plan in place to get in line with fellow team mates and switch off who walks down to transition to drop off their special needs bags and do final preparation on their bikes. It’s just a logistical issue really, nothing to worry yourself about. Done right it will be a smooth operation. In 2008 there were people in line at 4:00AM, but not many. We can’t say what impact this new twist will have on the line-up times, your guess is as good as anyone else’s. Here are the cutoff times:
The race will officially end 17 hours after the first age group athlete starts the swim. Aid station stops, transitions, etc., will be included in your total elapsed time. Splits will be recorded for each segment of the race. The following cutoff times apply for each segment of the race. Swim:Two hours and 20 minutes after the final athlete starts the swim. Any athlete still in the water after this time will be considered DNF and removed from the race. Bike: Officially closes at 5:30 p.m. Any athlete still on the bike after this time will be disqualified and removed from the race. Additionally we will enforce a second loop cutoff at approximately Mile 60**. Any athlete that does not reach the start of the second loop by 2:15 p.m. will be considered DNF and removed from the race. Run: Officially closes at 12:00 a.m. Any athlete still on the run after this time will be considered DNF. Additionally we will enforce a second loop cutoff at approximately Mile 14. Any athlete that does not reach the start of the second loop by 9:00 p.m.will be disqualified and removed from the race. How to figure your pace to ensure making the cutoffs:**
**The first bike cut off is at 2:15PM which is 7:15:00 into the race. Plan for this by subtracting the following from 7:15:00 ******
· your estimated swim time
· your estimated transition time
· the time elapsed from the start to when you entered the water Example: Assumption: 1:30:00 swim + 10:00 transition + 50:00 after start (basically the last swimmer to enter the water) = 2:30:00
Subtract 2:30:00 from 7:15:00 and you have 4:45:00 to make the first loop which is approximately 60 miles. You will need to average 12.63 mph to make the first bike cutoff. You can use the speed calculator here if you want to play with some numbers: http://www.machinehead-software.co.uk/bike/speed_distance_time_calc.html The second bike cutoff is at 5:30PM which is 10:30:00 into the race. Assuming you made the first bike cutoff with no time to spare, this would only leave you 3:15 for the second loop – To ensure you make the second cut-off you would need to average 16 mph (for the second loop only, if you JUST made the first cut-off) Overall, in this example, you have 8:00:00 for the entire bike portion which is an average of 14.0 mph over 112 miles. Assuming you make the bike cutoff with no time to spare and have a 10:00 transition, you will have 6:20:00 to complete the marathon. (Avg pace of 14:30/mi) Pace calculator can found here: http://www.runnersworld.com/cda/pacecalculator/1,7823,s6-238-277-398-0-0-0-0-0,00.htmlHOWEVER,you must have completed the first loop of the run (14 miles) no later than 9:00PM (3:20:00). You will need to run a 14:17/mile pace to make the first cutoff. If you just make the cutoff for the first loop of the marathon you have 3:00:00 to complete the remaining12.2 miles. The pace for the second loop you need to maintain would then be 14:45/mile.
I have done both previous IMLOU’s. Twenty-something male AGers muscling their way up the boat dock for position is an unavoidable part of the race.
The first year, I was approximately 150th in line and started swimming after about 10 minutes on the clock after arriving at before 5:00 A.M. Last year, I started swimming 35 minutes after the start, 1,000th place, with hundreds of people still behind me and getting in line at 5:30 A.M.
If it means I’m at risk of being DQ’ed with my 1:20 swim time after 2,499 people who are bigger and younger than me literally bully their way to the front before me, then it’s hard to see the point of starting at all.
I think the swim cutoff is still @ 2hrs 20 from the last swimmer not the first swimmer. The cutoff will hurt if someone is slow on the bike and at the final 17 hour cutoff.
This is sort of bizarre. I suspect that they will have a mess on their hands implementing this. Looking at last year’s results you had a hundred or so finishers who would be DNF this year assuming they were somewhere in the middle of the line and got swimming about 30 minutes after the gun. The other issue, is that they upped the registrations this year by 1,000 or so, so that 45-50 minute target to get everyone in the water will surely be over an hour. If they start DNFing people at mile 24-25, who are on pace to go 15:45-16:00 you are going to have some really angry folks!
SO to be safe, if you are planning on going 16:00 hrs+, you better plan on getting in line at 4:00 am (which is bullshit) and not sure how that would work with transition/marking not even open yet, or not bother showing up.
It looks like the “full contact” portion of the sport may be in the lineups prior to the swim rather than the first 500m of the swim start. I know that I won’t be in line at 4am but it is going to be a pain trying to pass a couple of thousand people
So if this is true, it will mean all the slower folks will show up extra early to get in line to ensure they have enough time, which means that the slow swimmers will start up front, and get run over by the faster swimmers the entire course… Great fun will be had by all!
It’s not a typo. I received an e-mail from Ann Skerkoski, the Ironman Athlete Services Coordinator, after e-mailing her about the cut-off times. It is as described in the Athlete’s Guide. The race ends at midnight no matter if you start at 7:00 am or 7:45 am.
What is the reasoning for this? It seems with a time trial start, that the 12:00am cut off cant ever be used to be fair for all participants to get atleast “17 hrs to finish”. Why did they initially have the 17 hrs for the final racer, but just now do the 17 hr cutoff from the start of the race?
Is it safety? Safety would seem to go out the window if they are going to basically “force” slower swimmers to start up front.
