Any thoughts on higher intensity 4 hour rides vs the typical LSD 5-6 hour training rides for IM?
theyre a lot better for getting faster on the bike.
4 hour, higher intensity rides will raise your potential for riding your IM faster because your physiology will adapt to the higher effort
6 hour, lower intensity rides MAY help you ride marginally faster because you feel more prepared mentally and have adapted to more saddle/aerobar time
If this is your first IM, I would do both, more of the 4 hour rides, only 1 or possibly 2 of the longer/slower rides.
If you can find the thread, dev paul had a great thread about this very topic about 2 years ago. He’s a big fan (like Steve Larsen) of less volume, more intensity when it comes to IM training.
I’m also interested in opinions on this matter. I just started my 24 week training program for my first IM (IMFL assuming the oil spill doesn’t fubar that event) and there’s just no f*cking way that I’m going on any 6.5 hour bike rides. I don’t plan on being on the bike that long for starters on race day let alone doing it once a week leading up to race day.
If I can go balls out for four hours and with similar fitness results, than I’m going that route.
You just need to learn how to sit in a pack if you are doing Florida.No long rides required.
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You just need to learn how to sit in a pack if you are doing Florida.No long rides required.
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Just not my style. I couldn’t live with myself with my no cheaters code. I’m there to put in my work and earn my finish.
I had a forced experiment - for IMC one year, due to family, etc, my bike training consisted of a 70 mile flat out time trial every Saturday morning - that’s it. I ended up with my fastest bike split in my 4 times there, and course weighted, perhaps the fastest bike of my 18 IMs.
Note, this was an all out effort from the word go. No stopping, no potty breaks, no conversation - just letting it rip! I now work that strategy into all of my training, although age is catching me a bit.
Bestw ishes,
I think doing a 4 hour high intensity ride is great but you still need the long bikes as well to keep up the endurance. The race isnt over at the end of the bike. You still have 3+ hours or running to do. The long 6.5 hour bike is good for training you body to go long no matter what it is.
“He’s a big fan (like Steve Larsen) of less volume, more intensity when it comes to IM training.”
A more accurate way to think about it would be less duration, more intensity, same volume. Most people miss that volume does not equal time alone…if you started a post “What is your training volume?” most would answer in terms of hours/week, which doesn’t tell you much in reality.
I had a forced experiment - for IMC one year, due to family, etc, my bike training consisted of a 70 mile flat out time trial every Saturday morning - that’s it. I ended up with my fastest bike split in my 4 times there, and course weighted, perhaps the fastest bike of my 18 IMs.
Note, this was an all out effort from the word go. No stopping, no potty breaks, no conversation - just letting it rip! I now work that strategy into all of my training, although age is catching me a bit.
Bestw ishes,
The real difference here is that you were already working with a huge base. Having done IM’s previously, all you were doing was tuning the engine. The OP still has to build the engine before he can make fine tuning adjustments.
The more times you have ridden the distance, the more comfortable you are going to feel riding that distance. The first century is a bitch, the second, bad, but tolerable and the third, fourth and fifth get easier as you do them.
The rides are not only about fitness, but learning how to hydrate, and more importantly, eat. An all out, balls to the walls ride is great for someone that has previously perfected their hydration and nutrition requirements, but for a first time Ironman going out and never doing the distance, all that will do is lead to a very long slow walk of a marathon.
JM$0.02
CS
I did this for my first IM last year (LSD) 4 times with my first ride being 100, and my final ride being 125 miles and all it made me was a long slow distance biker. I guess for my first IM it was okay, but for some reason I thought LSD would make me faster some how, it didn’t. I finished feeling fine, but it was slow. I wish I had pushed harder in my longer workouts but I’m glad that I had the mileage under my belt so now I know what to expect in regards to nutrition too, but man I wish I peddled faster… for me anyway, I can’t get faster unless I train faster. Good luck and enjoy the ride!
Good points. Hydration and nutrition are critcal. practice the Principles in all 2+ hour workouts so that it is “programmed” into the effort so thinking is not required come race day.
If you can find the thread, dev paul had a great thread about this very topic about 2 years ago. He’s a big fan (like Steve Larsen) of less volume, more intensity when it comes to IM training.
BAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!! Dev as the poster boy for “less volume, more intensity”?? Pass the crack pipe.
The freaking guy trains 15-25 hours a week - what part of that is “less volume”? Especially in the AG world?
Back to the OP, I believe that you get a lot more bang for your buck training for 3-4.5 hrs w/ a goodly amount of hard work in there, rather than noodling along for 5-6hrs, like so many IM folks do.
There’s a benefit to doing a handful of those longer rides: making sure you can stay fully aero for at least 90-95% of it, dialing in your pacing and nutrition, getting your neck used to being aero for that long, developing taintular fortitude, just knowing you can go the distance, etc.
But your meat and potatoes bike training will be going a bit shorter, and a lot harder. THAT is what will make you fast and strong on the bike, such that you can run to your potential coming off the bike in an IM - which is what it all comes down to on raceday.
It’s not either or here. I will combine aspects of both in my IM long bikes. Like a 5-6 hr ride = first hr warming up, then 20 min at FTP, usually a 6-8% climb, every hour with steady, not easy riding between. Basically I’m combining my long ride and a FTP ride the last couple months before IM.
I will find time for at least a few easier long rides as well as they help with the confidence factor (and help to lower body fat % leading up to the race). Some of this may be neuromuscular confidence, that is training your nervous system (which can fatigue) to keep firing for your race duration and beyond.
This is old ST wisdom but: When your body responds to and recovers from 5-6 hours as “no biggie”, you’re ready for IM on the bike.
5-6 hour rides dont have to be some easy ride through the park, they can be hard too, do most of them at around ironman pace, LSD is better suited to running than biking
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do an intnese first 4 hours and then cruise the final 2.5 hours and get the best of both worlds…
This is what Dev had to say on a somewhat unrelated thread last year:
4 hours no drafting, bolted to the aerobars, no coasting, no stopping faster than IM race pace will net you more training effect than 6-7 hours of noodling around on a latte ride with a pee/flat/latte/bakery break every 40 minutes…
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It’s not either or here. I will combine aspects of both in my IM long bikes. Like a 5-6 hr ride = first hr warming up, then 20 min at FTP, usually a 6-8% climb, every hour with steady, not easy riding between. Basically I’m combining my long ride and a FTP ride the last couple months before IM.
I will find time for at least a few easier long rides as well as they help with the confidence factor (and help to lower body fat % leading up to the race). Some of this may be neuromuscular confidence, that is training your nervous system (which can fatigue) to keep firing for your race duration and beyond.
This is old ST wisdom but: When your body responds to and recovers from 5-6 hours as “no biggie”, you’re ready for IM on the bike.
How much more do you suppose your body fat % is reduced by riding a few 5-6 hour slower rides in place of 4 hour faster rides?
It’s not either or here. I will combine aspects of both in my IM long bikes. Like a 5-6 hr ride = first hr warming up, then 20 min at FTP, usually a 6-8% climb, every hour with steady, not easy riding between. Basically I’m combining my long ride and a FTP ride the last couple months before IM.
I will find time for at least a few easier long rides as well as they help with the confidence factor (and help to lower body fat % leading up to the race). Some of this may be neuromuscular confidence, that is training your nervous system (which can fatigue) to keep firing for your race duration and beyond.
This is old ST wisdom but: When your body responds to and recovers from 5-6 hours as “no biggie”, you’re ready for IM on the bike.
How much more do you suppose your body fat % is reduced by riding a few 5-6 hour slower rides in place of 4 hour faster rides?
That’d be zero. Old school aerobics class “fat-burning zone” nonsense.
Actually, probably a net-negative #, since you will not only likely burn a LOT more calories/hr by riding hard, you will keep your metabolism revved up longer afterward.