people still use butyl tubes? the only time i use them are when on training rides, i bring them as a spare because it’s heavier and makes me work a wee bit harder. otherwise, it’s tubeless or latex.
I ride on chip seal a lot and unfortunately, I don’t feel much difference. It’s so rough, my head is shaking badly, neck, elbow, wrist everything hurts. I bet tubeless will make a big difference though.
I can confirm this. I ride a fair amount of chip seal and low PSI tubeless makes a world of difference.
The only difference with tubeless is that when you do bottom out, you are less likely to flat (but still can happen…), but the optimal pressure for a given surface and tire size doesn’t change between tubed and tubeless… it’s ALL about tire size.
Our tire pressure calculator has a pinch flat calculator built in, it will warn you if you are asking too much from your tire or if you need to go bigger… but note the ideal pressure doesn’t change between tire types, just between sizes:
https://silca.cc/pages/sppc-form
I ride on chip seal a lot and unfortunately, I don’t feel much difference. It’s so rough, my head is shaking badly, neck, elbow, wrist everything hurts. I bet tubeless will make a big difference though.
I can confirm this. I ride a fair amount of chip seal and low PSI tubeless makes a world of difference.
The only difference with tubeless is that when you do bottom out, you are less likely to flat (but still can happen…), but the optimal pressure for a given surface and tire size doesn’t change between tubed and tubeless… it’s ALL about tire size.
Our tire pressure calculator has a pinch flat calculator built in, it will warn you if you are asking too much from your tire or if you need to go bigger… but note the ideal pressure doesn’t change between tire types, just between sizes:
https://silca.cc/pages/sppc-form
I listened to you talk about this years ago. The convergence of disk brakes and road bike geometry allowing for wide tires. I waited to buy my new bike until I felt the options were plenty, and I’m happy I did.
I use the Silca calculator and it tells me to use about 40 PSI with a 40mm tire. I love it every time I ride. The bonus is that I’m just as fast as my old road bike, but much more comfortable.
This is why I have switched over to Challenge latex tubes - they still have the large oval grommet.
They do? In that case Challenge has a new customer!
I listened to you talk about this years ago. The convergence of disk brakes and road bike geometry allowing for wide tires. I waited to buy my new bike until I felt the options were plenty, and I’m happy I did.
I use the Silca calculator and it tells me to use about 40 PSI with a 40mm tire. I love it every time I ride. The bonus is that I’m just as fast as my old road bike, but much more comfortable.
I’m late to the tubeless party here (don’t have them) but I’m always amazed to hear that a 40mm tire at 40psi can run as fast a 23mm road tire. I remember my mtn bike, which had speed-killing things like a front fork and knobby tires, but there’s no way that bike would remotely keep up with any road bike on a descent. What makes these tubeless low PSI tires so fast compared to mountain bike tires running at similar PSI?
Who cares about lower rolling resistance, fewer flats, and better road feel? The main advantages of latex tubes are that they sound better, and can be manufactured with a greater variety of color options, than butyl.
Absolutely! Around the holidays, I like to put a red tube in the back and a green one in the front. It’s a subtle way to show a little Xmas spirit, and not something you can do with blah black butyl.
I’m late to the tubeless party here (don’t have them) but I’m always amazed to hear that a 40mm tire at 40psi can run as fast a 23mm road tire. I remember my mtn bike, which had speed-killing things like a front fork and knobby tires, but there’s no way that bike would remotely keep up with any road bike on a descent. What makes these tubeless low PSI tires so fast compared to mountain bike tires running at similar PSI?
There’s two questions here: how much a tire gives up on smooth roads by being 40mm versus 23mm, and how much a mountain bike gives up to a road bike.
There are often many things besides the tires that cause MTBs to be slower on the road than road bikes. A less-aerodynamic posture is usually a big part of it, and the aerodynamics of the bicycle itself can play a role as well. A suspension that’s well-tuned for technical riding may interfere with non-technical riding if it isn’t locked out, and a bit of climbing performance can be lost from added weight.
Even when discussing just the tires, width is only one of several factors that can make MTB tires slower than road tires on the road. Another huge factor is the construction of the casing: MTB tires often have toughened sidewalls that are resilient to cuts, which can add a lot of rolling resistance. Tread rubber compounds selected to optimize offroad grip may increase paved rolling resistance. Obviously the tread pattern itself may increase the amount of energy wasted deforming the tire on a paved road, and even waste energy by rumbling the bike+rider system.
My gravel bike has about the same tire width as my MTB. But if you were to plot the road performance of my bikes, the gravel bike would sit much closer to the skinny-tire road stuff than it would to the MTB. Road performance of a typical MTB just isn’t a very useful reference point for figuring out the effects of tire width.
40mm versus 23mm on a paved road of reasonable quality may not be compromise-free, but the costs may not be obvious if you’re not looking for them at least somewhat carefully.
This is my first season on latex tubes. I too have an 88 deep front and disc wheel rear. I ride Continental GP 5000 25c tyres. Without doubt this combination is the fastest set up I have ever had. I’ve set time trial PB’s on every course I’ve ridden this year, from hilly routes to flat courses. The ride is also super smooth and comfortable.
Just surprised as nobody really makes a big deal about how much nicer the ride is with latex vs butyl, but at least for me, it’s really noticeable.)
I don’t think you read much on here as I switched to this probably 3 years with speed and comfort being reasons 1a and 1b. I think this has been fair extensively discussed here and elsewhere. But, glad you found the greatness of latex!
I was going to order some butyl tubes from Vittoria, but they have a disclaimer not to use them with carbon clinchers because of heat build up. Has this been a problem for anyone? I did AC 70.3 yesterday, and I only actually used my brakes a couple times, and never for more than a squeeze or so. But I am doing Lake Placid next year, so now I’m not sure
There is absolutely no reason not to use butyl rubber tubes with carbon wheels.
I was going to order some from Backcountry.com but this disclaimer was at the end of the listing
“ Please note that most major wheel, tire, and tube manufacturers recommend against using latex tubes with carbon clinchers. Carbon brake surfaces tend to heat-up more than alloy, which can cause latex tubes to burst. Always use butyl tubes with carbon clincher rims.â€
So I just want sure
You said “butyl”.
Absolutely! Around the holidays, I like to put a red tube in the back and a green one in the front. It’s a subtle way to show a little Xmas spirit, and not something you can do with blah black butyl.
Post of the day on the ST Forum! #winning 
On a more serious note. I switched over a few years ago to ride full-tike on latex tubes on my road bike. Maybe faster with less watts - not something I track or measure. What is noticeable is that it is a more comfortable ride at the PSI I tend to ride at now 75 - 80 psi.
No more or less on-the-road flats - about the same. I average 1 - 2 on-the-road flats a year. This year - none, so far! That means I will flat the next ride!! We ride on a lot of shitty roads and I also mix it up with gravel roads and rail-trails on the same road bike - but it’s pretty good gravel - often better and nicer to ride than some of the paved roads in our area.
Oh crap I meant latex. Sorry!
Have been riding latex tubes on my 88/disc Premierbike since May (I think), has been great! Was riding butyl before that, and was a newcomer to latex then, has some concerns about flats and durability and valve extender compatibility but turns out everything has been working great. I weirdly had a rash of 3 flats in 3 months with butyl in the 3 months prior to latex, and was fearing the worst, but haven’t flatted on latex since.
I have the same bike and wheels. What brand latex are you using and what psi? Might take the dive, but heard so many horror stories of getting a flat during a race.
I wouldn’t worry about it. I’ve actually used latex tubes as a bladder to mold composites during a 350 degree F cure. Worked great. Latex can withstand heat just fine.
I just bought some latex tubes but the valve is too short. I have some valve extenders but not sure how they work. Tubes have non removable presta valve. Extender valve screws on but I could not inflate the tubes. Some help here please.
There is a Slowtwitch article on all the options on the main page. Basically you need to open the presta valve and turn a bit more to lock it. Then screw on the extender. The pressure will keep it sealed and the pump will be strong enough to fill the tube. Removable style has been better for me.
Have been riding latex tubes on my 88/disc Premierbike since May (I think), has been great! Was riding butyl before that, and was a newcomer to latex then, has some concerns about flats and durability and valve extender compatibility but turns out everything has been working great. I weirdly had a rash of 3 flats in 3 months with butyl in the 3 months prior to latex, and was fearing the worst, but haven’t flatted on latex since.
I have the same bike and wheels. What brand latex are you using and what psi? Might take the dive, but heard so many horror stories of getting a flat during a race.
I have been using Silca latex tubes, no problems. 100psi for me, but I’m not sure if this is ‘correct’, I just went with what I was using in butyl, so correct me if it’s wrong.