Look at these finishing times for the IM France bike. I will let you suck my wheel if you will suck mine ;-).
4 - Gilles Reboul - France - 5:49:00
2 - Francois Chabaud - France - 5:49:35
1 - Tim DeBoom - USA - 5:49:35
6 - Herve Faure - France - 5:49:35
19 - Marcel Zamora - Spain - 5:49:35
3 - Rene Rovera - France - 5:55:00
5 - Felix-Javier Martinez-Rubio - Spain - 5:58:00
Your conclusion assumes they all left T-1 at the same time as well. They might have, but then again…they might not have…
By looking at the times I am assuming that it includes the swim, T-1, and the bike. So it does not matter when they left T1, they all arrived at T2 together. I may be wrong, but if I am Francois will be by shortly to set things straight.
No,
I do not assume they left T1 at the same time. I was reading the updates and the times of guys 2nd through 5/6th were all close, most of the ride. Then there was the update about DeBoom arguing about a drafting penalty.
And that is only with the top ten. Multiply the fact there are many age groupers out there and voila, pack riding at its finest, Ala Kona 2003.
these times include the swim and T1 and to put it simply, it doesn’t surprise me at all…but then again, it’s a much smaller pack than what happens in Kona for instance…
The thing that’s annoying is that at this race, they can’t argue that the course is not hilly enough and that’s why everyone is grouped…
It just goes on with the tradition of wheel sucking at Nice…
Arriving together doesn’t mean it’s a “pack.” It only means they were marking each other. I was at the 17-mile point at the Rock N Roll Marathon a few weeks ago. 6 guys rolled through within inches of each other, and I didn’t hear anybody squawking about a “pack.”
Big marathons don’t really get started until the 20-mile mark. Big IM races don’t get started until the 6-8 mile mark of the run , so I don’t read anything into the fact that a big group might roll off the bike together. It probably just means that they were watching each other and waiting to make a move.
Besides, drafting is part of IM racing. It’s not a “no-draft” bike ride; it’s a “low-draft” bike ride. Even at 4 bike lengths, there is a significant draft, even at AG speeds. Almost every age grouper that ever raced an IM drafted, even if they were entirely legal.
Great, after 10 years of arguing about drafting, some weenie brings it up again. Here goes ST into a trainwreck about drafting again. Damn.
There are two types of drafting. Legal drafting and illegal drafting.
Tests have shown in still air, the actual measureable zone of influence caused by a rider can be many many metres (I’ve heard rumours of over 25 metres there is still some benefit!)
Depending on the rules of a particular race, the illegal draft zone is generally about 7 metres (4 bike lengths). Stay out of that zone (which is also 3 metres wide from memory) and you ride a legal race.
Can you benefit from staying say 4.5 metres behind another rider? You bet. Does that make it illegal? NO. Does that make it smart? YUP!
Before we start getting all bent out of shape arguing benefits/unfair benefits of drafting, can we please just get everyone to follow the damn rules THEN we can figure out if the rules are fair or not.
last year in Kona, the race started at what? km10…of the bike? 
8mi into the run, the race was finished already.
anyway, to go back to your point…no IM is not a low draft bike ride…the athletes make it this way, but it’s draft illegal. period.
Francois,
You must be really bored to pick this fight! (again). The rules are set by WTC - and in fact just re-set (yet again) in the formation of the GTG. (b) *Definition of Drafting Zone. *The term “drafting zone” shall refer to a rectangular area seven (7) meters long and two (2) meters wide surrounding each bicycle. The 7-meter dimension will be measured from the front wheel of the lead bike to the front wheel of the chase bike. The 2-meter dimension will be measured equally, 1 meter on each side of the bike for a distance of 7 meters behind the front wheel of the bike. With respect to a moving motor vehicle, the “drafting zone” is a rectangular area extending 2 meters to each side of the vehicle and 15 meters behind the vehicle. The rules are pretty clear. You cannot be in the 7m by 2m draft zone for more then 20 seconds once passed or while trying to pass. So whether that creates a “low draft” race or not is kind of irrelevent now. I think within these rules it perfectly fine for 4 guys to roll into T2 within seconds of each other - ok really they should have been separated by anywhere from 3 to 5 seconds each, but they are all seasoned pros and know exactly how close to ride together (however based on the penalties maybe they cut it a bit too close).
oh so now it’s 7m from the front wheel to the next front wheel…so that’s what 5.50m? that’s so dumb…they might as well say draft legal then…
I don’t care whether I DNF or finish or have a great race, but when I race, I respect at least 10m sometimes a lot more (Olaf does the same btw)…
If I never finish an other IM, I will be able to say at least I didn’t draft either.
well - i guess i can see the honor in that (or actually the honour) but i’m not sure it makes the most sense… why unfairly penalize yourself when you can race within the same rules everyone else is.
I agree with your basic premise that the WTC is setting up a 7m draft zone so that they can accommodate 2000+ people on two and three lap courses - but still call them non-drafting races - that’s because they’ve decided that “drafting” only occures within the 7m zone…
However just like complaining about wind or rain - just race the race you have - as long as everyone is on the same course and under the same rules it’s still a race.
i don’t think you’ll have much trouble at IMC however - you’ll be out of the swim early and then you’ll have smooth sailing to chase Tom all the way to Richter!
Looked like a close race on the bike!
Perhaps they were sperated legally and then bunched up a bit over the last few 100 meters as they pulled into T2 - fiddling around with getting out of cycling shoes etc . … They rarely call a drafting penalty in this area. At least I have never experienced it or seen it in hundreds of triathlons that I have been to.
Fleck
call this stupid french idealism/romantism 
.
Guys
I was there, although definately not at the sharp end with the guys doing those kind of times. I was up in the first third though, and the draft marshals were pretty active. There were cyclists getting ‘black-carded’ all the time for what looked like pretty minor offences. I saw probably 30-40 of these penalties applied.
There were sufficient marshalls out there that drafting would have been a risky thing to do.
Can’t speak for what was going on at the front, but assuming that they were treated in a similar way to us, I’d suggest that there wasn’t much in the way of drafting allowed to happen.
Anyway - great race. Sea perfect temperature and pretty clean - course well marked. Bike was superb, excellent road surface, loads of hills, some of which were long, but nothing too steep (although I think it totalled somewhere near 2000m climb), great descents. Run flat and repetitive. Pretty warm - 90deg-ish.
My first IM (and 4th ever Tri) - was more than happy with my 12:34.
Highly recommended for next year.
Cheers
Paul
So the draft box has been reduced again !!!
Thats just depressing. I hope my first IM doesn’t have this problem…
Thanks for the report…congrats on joining the Ironman ranks.
I think the draft box is 7m at a lot of international IM races. I know it is in NZ. I’m not sure what it was last year at IMNA events. 7m seems about right - 3 bike lengths. There is really no way around it if they are going to run 2000 people through a race - especially one with two laps. they could have a bigger draft box (say 10m) but everyone wouldn’t fit. there will probably be 600-800 people coming out of the water between 1:00 and 1:10. ouch that’s a lot of people to fit into 7m incriments over the first 15 miles…