Illogical Personal Descriptors - A continuing list

The Coffee Shop
1

Always thought this was an interesting topic. I’d like to see which other ones everyone has encountered in their experiences.

For example, I once heard someone describe themselves as “half-Jewish.” While I completely understand the meaning they’re trying to convey, the description itself is illogical. Judaism is a faith, and therefore a choice made by the person. They are either Jewish or they are not, unless they’re introducing some new hybrid religion. It would be akin to someone describing themselves as “half-Catholic” or “half-Islamic.” Doesn’t quite make sense in that context, does it?

That was just an example, but I wanted to see if anyone else has had similar experiences in which someone described themselves and it just made you shake your head a bit.

Cheers.

2

I see your point, but in this example, many people might feel that “Jewish” is as much related to heritage as it is to religion. I have many friends in “the tribe” who consider themselves “Jewish” but do not practice their faith.

3

I def see your point. At the same time, I feel like the logic still holds. I feel like a lot of people do this in terms of their origins though. I could, for instance, insist that I was Latin American although I neither a) speak spanish, b) born and raised in the USA, and c) don’t practice many Latin American customs. I would only base that description solely on where my parents were born. I’m, by all means, simply American and therefore describe myself as such.

It’s a bit touchy I know. It just peeves me a bit when someone describes themselves with origins that clearly don’t represent who they are.

4

I see your point. And often…I too am confused. As you can see by my user name I have a very Jewish sounding surname (no relation to Howie. I get that almost daily)

My dad is Jewish. My mom was raised Christian but converted to Judiaim. I was loosely raised Jewish. We’d sometimes go to services. We’d do haunkkah and passover. I had maybe 2 y ears of sunday school as a small child and I did not have a bar/batmitzva. I can never remember which is which. Anyway…I decided I was an Athiest in my early 20s…

So a few weeks ago I met with my contractor (also with a jewish surname) and he asks me if I am jewish. I do feel a kinship with other people who are or have been raised Jewish so I don’t want to say “no” Not sure I want to tell someone I just met I don’t believe in God at all. That never goes over well. And yes, I also see it sort of as an ethnicity.

And I’ve told people “No I am not Jewish” before and they said “Your last name is Mandel. You’re Jewish to me”

So I can see why people say “half” It’s just easier now isn’t it :slight_smile:

5

But being a Jew is completely different from being Catholic or Islamic. Jews are also a separate ethnic group, so in the context of ethnicity, you could be half Jewish in the same vein that somone is 1/2 Irish or 1/2 French.

6

“half-Jewish” is wrong, but for a different reason. If your mother is Jewish when you were born, you are considered Jewish (at least by Jews). I, who was born Jewish yet do not believe in God, am considered Jewish (I believe that I could become a citizen of Israel if I so desired). My children, who were born to a non-Jewish woman, are not Jewish.

Jew or Jew not: there is no half.

7

But being a Jew is completely different from being Catholic or Islamic. Jews are also a separate ethnic group, so in the context of ethnicity, you could be half Jewish in the same vein that somone is 1/2 Irish or 1/2 French.

Jews are not a separate ethnic group. There are groups of people, who happen to be Jewish, who could be considered separate ethnic groups, but it’s not because of their religion. If a black couple adopted a white child, is that child automagically a member of the black ethnic group?

8

Not everyone subscribes to an orthodox or even religious definition. Not is what Israel says determinitive.

I think there are enough definitions of who is or is not a Jew, albeit sometimes competing definitions, to make “half-Jew” or “ethnic Jew” not incorrect.

Yes, it’s wikipedia, but:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_is_a_Jew%3F

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_group

9

Wikipedia disagrees with you:

“Judaism shares some of the characteristics of a nation, an ethnicity, a religion, and a culture, making the definition of who is a Jew vary slightly depending on whether a religious or national approach to identity is used. Generally, in modern secular usage, Jews include three groups: people who were born to a Jewish family regardless of whether or not they follow the religion; those who have some Jewish ancestral background or lineage (sometimes including those who do not have strictly matrilineal descent); and people without any Jewish ancestral background or lineage who have formally converted to Judaism and therefore are followers of the religion.”

Also, jewfaq.org:

“Judaism has been described as a religion, a race, a culture, and a nation
All of these descriptions have some validity
The Jewish people are best described as an extended family”

The US Supreme Court has also classified Jews as a race with regard to discrimination.

10

Ok, that being said. Can one still be “half” a part of a nation, or an extended family, as you’ve described?

Also, I see that my little argument in semantics has gotten out of hand.

11

I understand what you are saying. There is a difference between race, ethnicity, and national origin.

For example - my nephew/godson has a white mother and an African-American father. So, he is “half-black” and/or “half-white” and that accurately describes him.

My two kids have a “full-blooded” white parent and a “full-blooded” Mexican parent (who was born and raised in the U.S.). So, they are “half-white” and “half-Latino” or “half-Hispanic (according to the North American bastardization of the term).” But, are they “half-Irish” and “half-Mexican?” Not really. Both parents were born in the US and they are US citizens. But, when asked, “what are you?” this is how they answer.

12

And you thought a meaningless argument over semantics wouldn’t get out of hand on slowtwitch? :slight_smile:

Although I wouldn’t classify this as out of hand yet. No one has mentioned Hitler, Bush or Obama and Dan hasn’t locked or deleted the thread or threatened people with bans yet.

Back to the argument, I don’t know how incorrect it would be to call someone half jewish. As seen from the linked sites Jewishness is quite complicated.

13

There are those annoying people who say “I’m a vegetarian, but I eat fish” or “I’m a vegetarian but I eat white meat.”
The correct words are pescatarian and pollo vegetarian, respectively.

14

There are those annoying people who say “I’m a vegetarian, but I eat fish” or “I’m a vegetarian but I eat white meat.”
The correct words are pescatarian and pollo vegetarian, respectively.

I’m a lacto-ovo-bovine vegetarian. :wink:

You know – strictly vegetables, but including milk, cheese, yogurt, eggs…and beef. But, I have to admit that I sometimes fall off the wagon and enjoy lamb, chicken, or pork. Mmmm…bacon. :slight_smile:

15

There are those annoying people who say “I’m a vegetarian, but I eat fish” or “I’m a vegetarian but I eat white meat.”
The correct words are pescatarian and pollo vegetarian, respectively.

As an ex-lacto-ovo pescatarian, I found it far easier to tell people I was a vegetarian. People either had no clue what I meant by pescatarian or thought I was telling them my religion (confusing it with Episcopalian). You get enough flack and sarcastic comments by not eating meat, why add a vocabulary lesson to it?

16

I consider myself to be a militant moderate. Does that qualify?

17

“half-Jewish” is wrong, but for a different reason. If your mother is Jewish when you were born, you are considered Jewish (at least by Jews). I, who was born Jewish yet do not believe in God, am considered Jewish (I believe that I could become a citizen of Israel if I so desired). My children, who were born to a non-Jewish woman, are not Jewish.

Jew or Jew not: there is no half.

And even more complicated than that. I was sharing a hotel room with two of my team mates in vegas (for interbike natch) and they had an argument over if I was or was not jewish. My mom DID convert before I was born. Did the whole process thru a reform temple. One said yes that makes me a Jew. The other said NO my mom had to be born a Jew.

That’s when I said “I don’t even believe in god! What does it matter?”

“it doesn’t matter what YOU think!!!”

And no, no alcohol was being consumed :wink:

18

I was born in the US.
My parents were bon in the US.
My grandparents were born in the US.

Am I not a native american?

19

I had a guy tell me he was half-Canadian. I asked if he had dual citizenship. This was really me giving him an out. He did not. I told him he was not half Canadian, and that nobody was. He insisted he was, as his dad was Canadian. I stopped there because I had by this time written him off as an idiot.

20

Thought you might like this from the BSNYC blog, regarding Dave Zabriskie, the “fish eating vegan”.

As part of his “vegan” diet Zabriskie “plans to eat small amounts of salmon two days per week,” which means his diet is about as vegan as Babe’s ass is kosher.

Now, when it comes to eating, I say eat whatever as long as it’s not endangered, makes you happy, and keeps you regular. Want to join the “nose to tail movement?” Good for you. Want to go vegan because you can’t stand even the thought of a human hand tugging on a bovine udder? Perfectly fine. Want to eat the heart of your human enemy while it’s still beating so that you may absorb his powers? Well, you probably shouldn’t do that, if only for sanitary reasons.

But regardless of what you eat, you don’t get to call yourself a vegan if you eat salmon. If you need a fancy, pretentious name for yourself, then I guess you can call yourself a “pescetarian.” (That’s someone who only eats Joe Pesci.) But all it really means is you’re not a vegan; you’re just another lox-munching schmuck.

Anyway, apparently Zabriskie is being mentored by another pretend-vegan athlete:

Zabriskie also consulted with a professional motorcycle racer, Ben Bostrom, also a vegan, who advised Zabriskie to include small amounts of fish a couple of times a week because of the incredibly large load he puts on his body during training. “He told me, don’t get too hung up on the word ‘vegan’,” says Zabriskie. The fish, Zabriskie says, helps his body absorb certain vitamins and iron.

Again, I don’t care what people are eating, but the word “vegan” means what it means. Don’t get too hung up on the word “vegan?!?” Getting hung up about stuff is what being a vegan is all about! Certain areas of life need to remain black and white, and the profoundly irritating self-righteousness of veganism is one of them. I mean, what if you replace the word “vegan” with “clean,” and the word “fish” with “EPO?”

*Zabriskie also consulted with a professional motorcycle racer, Ben Bostrom, also a clean rider, who advised Zabriskie to include small amounts of EPO a couple of times a week because of the incredibly large load he puts on his body during training. “He told me, don’t get too hung up on the word ‘clean’,” says Zabriskie. *

Or, what if you used “virgin” and “sexual intercourse?”

*Zabriskie also consulted with a professional motorcycle racer, Ben Bostrom, also a virgin rider, who advised Zabriskie to include small amounts of sexual intercourse a couple of times a week because of the incredibly large load he puts on his body during training. “As he caressed me, he told me, don’t get too hung up on the word ‘virgin’,” says Zabriskie. *

I may have added a few extra words there, but I think you see my point. Being a vegan is like being a virgin: you either is, or you ain’t. As far as I’m concerned, Zabriskie can eat all the salmon he wants. But he doesn’t get to call himself a vegan.