https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/31/us/politics/trump-navy-seal-war-crimes.html
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This is simply yet another example of inflammatory behavior which we should expect by now. Trump’s behavior is corrosive to troop moral and not helpful because it was done in public.
This is simply yet another example of inflammatory behavior which we should expect by now. Trump’s behavior is corrosive to troop moral and not helpful because it was done in public.
How is it corrosive to troop moral? Wouldn’t the decision to push back on the prosecutors be seen as a protective order for the troops?
This is simply yet another example of inflammatory behavior which we should expect by now. Trump’s behavior is corrosive to troop moral and not helpful because it was done in public.
How is it corrosive to troop moral? Wouldn’t the decision to push back on the prosecutors be seen as a protective order for the troops?
Two issues in my mind with this whole case.
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Unlawful command influence on the courts martial. This has been hashed out here. POTUS shouldn’t be stating his opinion on an on going legal case. He influenced the result.
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These prosecutors didn’t deserve a Navy Achievement Medal for losing the case, but having the POTUS take it away makes every commander between him and the awarding authority look like an impotent fuckwad. Either they should have cancelled the award or has the balls to put their bars (or stars) on the table.
Neither is good for good order and discipline.
“The Prosecutors who lost the case against SEAL Eddie Gallagher (who I released from solitary confinement so he could fight his case properly), were ridiculously given a Navy Achievement Medal,†Mr. Trump wrote on Twitter. “Not only did they lose the case, they had difficulty with respect to information that may have been obtained from opposing lawyers and for giving immunity in a totally incompetent fashion.â€
“I have directed the Secretary of the Navy Richard Spencer & Chief of Naval Operations John Richardson to immediately withdraw and rescind the awards. I am very happy for Eddie Gallagher and his family!â€
File that under “Tweets that somebody else obviously wrote for him”.
I don’t have an opinion on the case, for or against of that Navy Seal as I have not followed it.
But, I will say this…does Anyone really believe that Trumpy Bear actually gives a single fuck about that Seal, and is just using this particular situation to piss off the Libtards and “connect” with his base?
This fucking guy…
This is simply yet another example of inflammatory behavior which we should expect by now. Trump’s behavior is corrosive to troop moral and not helpful because it was done in public.
How is it corrosive to troop moral? Wouldn’t the decision to push back on the prosecutors be seen as a protective order for the troops?
Two issues in my mind with this whole case.
-
Unlawful command influence on the courts martial. This has been hashed out here. POTUS shouldn’t be stating his opinion on an on going legal case. He influenced the result.
-
These prosecutors didn’t deserve a Navy Achievement Medal for losing the case, but having the POTUS take it away makes every commander between him and the awarding authority look like an impotent fuckwad. Either they should have cancelled the award or has the balls to put their bars (or stars) on the table.
Neither is good for good order and discipline.
I don’t disagree, but I’m not commenting on other specifics of this particular case. If I were lower level personnel, I would see this as a positive since it clearly puts the onus on the prosecution to have an extremely airtight case before bringing it against me. I could be very wrong, but that was my first thought.
This is simply yet another example of inflammatory behavior which we should expect by now. Trump’s behavior is corrosive to troop moral and not helpful because it was done in public.
How is it corrosive to troop moral? Wouldn’t the decision to push back on the prosecutors be seen as a protective order for the troops?
The “troops” includes the lawyers in this case. What influence will this act have on other military prosecutors in the future? Will they be as willing to take on already difficult cases, if they know that their commander and chief will not stand up for them? It is not just these lawyers but anyone in uniform that investigates misconduct in the military.
- These prosecutors didn’t deserve a Navy Achievement Medal for losing the case, but having the POTUS take it away makes every commander between him and the awarding authority look like an impotent fuckwad. Either they should have cancelled the award or has the balls to put their bars (or stars) on the table.
Neither is good for good order and discipline.
I would like to see the justification and actual write up for the award before passing judgment on this point. The award could have been for all the hours, effort, travel, etc. that went above their normal expected duties. It is possible it had little to do with the actual handling of the case.
NAMS are awarded at the command level, or at least used to be. No one but the CO signs off on them. I’ve never hear of anyone above a CO getting involved after the fact, let alone the President.
Interesting NY Times “The Daily” podcast on this case recently.
Turns out that the guy is perhaps not a very nice man and (almost) got punished for pretty clear-cut war crimes…
Except now it has been reinforced that people can do what the fuck they want and the rule of law is not a thing after all…
This is simply yet another example of inflammatory behavior which we should expect by now. Trump’s behavior is corrosive to troop moral and not helpful because it was done in public.
How is it corrosive to troop moral? Wouldn’t the decision to push back on the prosecutors be seen as a protective order for the troops?
The “troops” includes the lawyers in this case. What influence will this act have on other military prosecutors in the future? Will they be as willing to take on already difficult cases, if they know that their commander and chief will not stand up for them? It is not just these lawyers but anyone in uniform that investigates misconduct in the military.
Curious how many people you are talking about versus how many people are actually in the Navy? It seems like this is to the detriment of a few but a “positive†for the vast majority.
I put positive in quotes because it could have a negative affect on lower enlisted thinking they can get away with anything.
Interesting NY Times “The Daily” podcast on this case recently.
Turns out that the guy is perhaps not a very nice man and (almost) got punished for pretty clear-cut war crimes…
Except now it has been reinforced that people can do what the fuck they want and the rule of law is not a thing after all…
Barely following it, but didn’t he get off because someone else admitted to shooting the person? Seems like the admitted shooter would be convicted, no?
Interesting NY Times “The Daily” podcast on this case recently.
Turns out that the guy is perhaps not a very nice man and (almost) got punished for pretty clear-cut war crimes…
Except now it has been reinforced that people can do what the fuck they want and the rule of law is not a thing after all…
Barely following it, but didn’t he get off because someone else admitted to shooting the person? Seems like the admitted shooter would be convicted, no?
IIRC, the admitted killer (can’t remember if it was shooting or something else - maybe suffocation?) got immunity for making his admission.
- These prosecutors didn’t deserve a Navy Achievement Medal for losing the case, but having the POTUS take it away makes every commander between him and the awarding authority look like an impotent fuckwad. Either they should have cancelled the award or has the balls to put their bars (or stars) on the table.
Neither is good for good order and discipline.
I would like to see the justification and actual write up for the award before passing judgment on this point. The award could have been for all the hours, effort, travel, etc. that went above their normal expected duties. It is possible it had little to do with the actual handling of the case.
NAMS are awarded at the command level, or at least used to be. No one but the CO signs off on them. I’ve never hear of anyone above a CO getting involved after the fact, let alone the President.
Who knows what the award was for, but at least where I came from NAMs were given out for real Achievement. I’d like to see the write-up as well. In the Navy they give them out like candy, so I was simply applying my stricter Marine Corps standard.
Absolutely, a NAM is a Battalion Commander or Command at Sea/Shore level award, but once the POTUS got involved everyone between him and the CO has some responsibility.
This is simply yet another example of inflammatory behavior which we should expect by now. Trump’s behavior is corrosive to troop moral and not helpful because it was done in public.
How is it corrosive to troop moral? Wouldn’t the decision to push back on the prosecutors be seen as a protective order for the troops?
The “troops” includes the lawyers in this case. What influence will this act have on other military prosecutors in the future? Will they be as willing to take on already difficult cases, if they know that their commander and chief will not stand up for them? It is not just these lawyers but anyone in uniform that investigates misconduct in the military.
Curious how many people you are talking about versus how many people are actually in the Navy? It seems like this is to the detriment of a few but a “positive†for the vast majority.
I put positive in quotes because it could have a negative affect on lower enlisted thinking they can get away with anything.
What about the troops that see misconduct and now prosecutors won’t do anything about it, are they being supported by this action? Isn’t the vast majority of the navy people that would report misconduct and want it punished? Or is that the minority?
This is simply yet another example of inflammatory behavior which we should expect by now. Trump’s behavior is corrosive to troop moral and not helpful because it was done in public.
How is it corrosive to troop moral? Wouldn’t the decision to push back on the prosecutors be seen as a protective order for the troops?
The “troops” includes the lawyers in this case. What influence will this act have on other military prosecutors in the future? Will they be as willing to take on already difficult cases, if they know that their commander and chief will not stand up for them? It is not just these lawyers but anyone in uniform that investigates misconduct in the military.
Curious how many people you are talking about versus how many people are actually in the Navy? It seems like this is to the detriment of a few but a “positive†for the vast majority.
I put positive in quotes because it could have a negative affect on lower enlisted thinking they can get away with anything.
What about the troops that see misconduct and now prosecutors won’t do anything about it, are they being supported by this action? Isn’t the vast majority of the navy people that would report misconduct and want it punished? Or is that the minority?
I think you are taking quite the leap, but I agree with your point.
Interesting NY Times “The Daily” podcast on this case recently.
Turns out that the guy is perhaps not a very nice man and (almost) got punished for pretty clear-cut war crimes…
Except now it has been reinforced that people can do what the fuck they want and the rule of law is not a thing after all…
Barely following it, but didn’t he get off because someone else admitted to shooting the person? Seems like the admitted shooter would be convicted, no?
IIRC, the admitted killer (can’t remember if it was shooting or something else - maybe suffocation?) got immunity for making his admission.
Correct. A fellow SEAL, who was granted immunity by the prosecution for his testimony in the case, pulled a stunt in the court room where he admitted killing the prisoner. There was no discussion of this version of the events prior to his court room admission, as I understand.
It reeks of SEALs doing SEAL shit and thinking they are above the law to me. I think they pulled a fast one based upon what I have read and other testimony by non SEALs who were present. Proving that version of the events was perjury by the admitted killer might be difficult, however a reasonable doubt was created.
Interesting NY Times “The Daily” podcast on this case recently.
Turns out that the guy is perhaps not a very nice man and (almost) got punished for pretty clear-cut war crimes…
Except now it has been reinforced that people can do what the fuck they want and the rule of law is not a thing after all…
Barely following it, but didn’t he get off because someone else admitted to shooting the person? Seems like the admitted shooter would be convicted, no?
IIRC, the admitted killer (can’t remember if it was shooting or something else - maybe suffocation?) got immunity for making his admission.
Correct. A fellow SEAL, who was granted immunity by the prosecution for his testimony in the case, pulled a stunt in the court room where he admitted killing the prisoner. There was no discussion of this version of the events prior to his court room admission, as I understand.
It reeks of SEALs doing SEAL shit and thinking they are above the law to me. I think they pulled a fast one based upon what I have read and other testimony by non SEALs who were present. Proving that version of the events was perjury by the admitted killer might be difficult, however a reasonable doubt was created.
Yeah that seems pretty sketchy. No wonder Trump is a fan 
So either way some one got away with murder. I’m guessing the guy who was on trial.
[quote Correct. A fellow SEAL, who was granted immunity by the prosecution for his testimony in the case, pulled a stunt in the court room where he admitted killing the prisoner. There was no discussion of this version of the events prior to his court room admission, as I understand.
It reeks of SEALs doing SEAL shit and thinking they are above the law to me. I think they pulled a fast one based upon what I have read and other testimony by non SEALs who were present. Proving that version of the events was perjury by the admitted killer might be difficult, however a reasonable doubt was created.
The prosecuted SEAL left his post, went back to the med collection area, and stabbed the prisoner. In court, the SEAL Medic admitted to suffocating the prisoner when he knew the prisoner was going to die anyway via bleed-out. The SEAL Medic had not told this in prior interviews, and sprang it up in testimony in court.
My brother was a SEAL for 12 years, and has some pretty horrific stories of what one human can do to another. SEAL, non SEAL, military, other military, civilian, mob. There’s a whole lotta wrong happening in this death, lots more in the prosecution, even more with the President making effective hay on it for political gain, and even more with the memo release by senior Navy officials in command way above the SEALS who are investigating improper behavior of many types within the special forces (any by extension larger military branch). One item I particularly noted was they senior brass is investigating if special forces members drink or do drugs…which is officially (at least) banned or frowned upon, but anyone going through BUDS or a SEAL career knows that they may hoist a beer or 2 during their enlistment period.
What about the troops that see misconduct and now prosecutors won’t do anything about it, are they being supported by this action? Isn’t the vast majority of the navy people that would report misconduct and want it punished? Or is that the minority?
Other solders, some SEALs, saw the behavior in this case and reported it. Most probably would not, so as to not rat out their fellows.
The effect I see is not unlike reporting a rape or sexual assault. The Navy was attempting to create a more welcoming environment to reporting bad behavior, and this just sent a chilling message across the armed forces that might set back that effort for another decade.