Is getting better just a matter of doing more of it? I am a good swimmer, and decent biker, but my run has killed my time in races. I seem to only be able to go for about 25 min at a good pace (only 7:30/miles), and if I need to go further I’m slow as hell.
I am a bigger guy at 6’2" and read alot about short fast strides. Is this all that it is cracked up to be? What is the easiest way to tell if my stride is right? I feel silly shuffling along like that…
It seems like this shoudl be a no brainer, but I have never been a good distance guy, can you teach a young dog a new trick? Will I forever be getting passed by those turning 6:30’s?
Perhaps I am a natural sprinter - very dangerous over short distances…
be careful on the super short fast strides and even more careful on the loooong strides. Basically if your body is pretty upright, maybe a slight foward tilt at the waist your leading leg should hit with your foot plant being directly under or even slightly behind your knee. If your foot plant is ahead of your knee then you are overstriding and actually braking every time you take a step. As your speed picks up your foot plant will ideally be right under your body. Try shortening your strides a bit and see what happens. But being the big guy that you are it might just take more time. 7:30 isn’t all that slow…
research shows that the overwhelming majority of people will self select the proper stride for themselves. I’d worry more about getting your miles up over a period of a few months to increase your ability to run further and faster. Slow down a bit to go longer in the beginning. Work on running relaxed and efficient.
How much do you currently run? At what pace do you train? race? HRs for training and racing? if you provide some more info it would be easier to help you.
I could start the same exact thread on how I suck at cycling
Coming from someone who was spent the majority of his life running, I can say that for me personally, focused sessions on the track with a group have made the most substantial improvements (and continue to do so.) I think I saw some endurance gains when I started doing weekly long runs and of course I think those are extremely important as well for any endurance running event. But for non-IM running speed (I consider an IM run as somewhat of a different animal) I suspect you may find a fairly good ROI from doing some research among the local running community and hooking yourself up with the best masters track workouts you can find. For IM run speed, I’m not entirely certain that interval training is as important, at least for the vast majority of us, though I certainly don’t think it hurts.
It’s effectively the same thing as swimming laps in a rec pool vs going to a focused masters practice and swimming in a lane that challenges you. I can’t quote any research on interval training, but it seems to be pretty widely accepted as a training technique and I am a big believer in it. There is also the mental aspect of a peer group that helps motivate on bad days and gives some basis of comparison on good days.
Of course there are no guarantees, but I see the guys I’m running with now getting faster even as they approach their 40’s.
I certainly don’t put stride frequency optimization on my list of the top 10 things people can do to improve their run split.
I used to think I sucked and running. Then I realised that even just in tri training I have run thousands of kilometers and I’ve only fallen twice. Once was on ice and the other was when part of the road I stepped on fell away.
I think those are pretty good results. Only two falls in many many thousands of running steps. That doesn’t suck, in fact it’s excellent!
I know realize I am actually an excellent runner. Way better than I am at math or English!
I still run slowly compared to many of my fellow competitors, but I’m still excellent at it!
Holy crap man, I’ve fallen at least 5 times while running, probably more like 10-20. I have two pretty good sized scars from the 2 most notable, one during Bakersfield that cost me a place and took a long time to clean up in the lake, and one out on the trails by my house that gave me a pretty ugly scar on my knee. Then I have this bulge at the bottom of my shin from another fall through a footbridge where I torqued my leg against a rung of the bridge. I’m pretty sure I’ve crashed more on foot than on 2 wheels.
Your Gimli quote cracked me up. Hopefully you have longer legs than he does.
Running more miles will help you in a number of ways. First, it will give you the strength to maintain your pace at longer distances. This is especially key when you had to ride a bike beforehand.
Second, it will make you faster at any distance. I used to run 25 miles a week with twice a week interval sessions and ran a pretty fast 5K, but my 10K time was much slower by comparison to a projected time. And I fell right of the chart at half-marathon.
After a few years of fairly regular 45-75 miles weeks with no intervals I can still run the same time at 5K, but now my 10K and half-marathon times have dropped significantly. More important, I can run nearly as fast off the bike in a 10K as I used to run in an open 10K.
A patient buildup of miles will do more for your running than anything else you could do. If you are a triathlete, which I am assuming from being on this forum, then mileage becomes even more important because even a short sprint race is at least and hour-long event. Most are two hours or more. The only way to be good for that long is to be aerobically efficient and the only way to be aerobically efficient is to spend a lot of time training aerobically.
Thus, run more miles. Just be patient. Some people can build up miles fast, but if you want to be sure about avoiding injuring then just increase slowly over time. I’ve taken a couple of months to go from my post-LA Marathon average of 30-40 miles up to about 55 this week. I may be overcautious, but I never get injured.
Is getting better just a matter of doing more of it? I am a good swimmer, and decent biker, but my run has killed my time in races. I seem to only be able to go for about 25 min at a good pace (only 7:30/miles), and if I need to go further I’m slow as hell.
I am a bigger guy at 6’2" and read alot about short fast strides. Is this all that it is cracked up to be? What is the easiest way to tell if my stride is right? I feel silly shuffling along like that…
It seems like this shoudl be a no brainer, but I have never been a good distance guy, can you teach a young dog a new trick? Will I forever be getting passed by those turning 6:30’s?
Perhaps I am a natural sprinter - very dangerous over short distances…
There is another way of improving your running beyond what has been said by others here. That is to put PowerCranks on your bike and bike more. Most who do that start seeing running improvement in about 2 weeks and will improve about a minute per mile in the marathon in about 3 months.
Actually, there are probably more ways to improve your running than that and they all emphasize improving running form. Pose, Chi, running in the pool, etc. That is probably the mechanism of action of the PowerCranks also.
So, if you are a mediocre runner, despite reasonable training, you probably have sucky form. With less than optimum form or technique it doesn’t matter how hard you try, if you don’t improve your technique, your ability to improve will be very limited.
Is getting better just a matter of doing more of it? I am a good swimmer, and decent biker, but my run has killed my time in races. I seem to only be able to go for about 25 min at a good pace (only 7:30/miles), and if I need to go further I’m slow as hell.
I am a bigger guy at 6’2" and read alot about short fast strides. Is this all that it is cracked up to be? What is the easiest way to tell if my stride is right? I feel silly shuffling along like that…
It seems like this shoudl be a no brainer, but I have never been a good distance guy, can you teach a young dog a new trick? Will I forever be getting passed by those turning 6:30’s?
Perhaps I am a natural sprinter - very dangerous over short distances…
Here are a few suggestions that have worked for me:
After your tri season. Pull back your swimming and biking and do a 3 to 4 month block of concentrate run training. Work on increasing your run freq. and mileage and body comp (if needed). Train like a 5K/10K’er or marathoner, whatever your preferred distance. You’ll get the most bang for your buck doing this. It’s hard to get significant improvement in one sport while you’re focusing on three.
Run more in the hills and trails. You have to be able to run strong in a triathlon.
Acorn had a good suggestion. Do an organized track workout with a group. Ideally you’ll want to run with people are slightly better than you. If you’re a 40min 10K’er you don’t want to run with the 35min 10K’ers.
Thanks Frank, I would love some of your cranks, but the wife will not let me spend that kind of money. I spent just over that on my bike and had to hide the shoes.
However, if you are interested in sponsoring an Average Joe like myself who would see dramatic improvement and then go and sing your praises to the world, I would be very interested!
Seriously, I think that your product has alot of merit, and I would love some someday, but it looks like I will be hitting the road on foot.
For the rest, I am running more like 8:30’s in Sprints and totally blow up in Oly distance. For training I normally run about 5k three or four times a week, with one day closer to 10k. I have been working on building fitness and don’t train with a HRM yet. I could still stand to lose a few, but not that much.
I have experienced pain in the bones of my feet when building milage, and might just have to build slower. (Orthodics have helped, but it still hurts after longer runs).
I agree totally with Trevor. Work the run in the off season. The only point a disagree with is on track work. Save that till next May.
First question…how many years have you been running ?
Most people have an insufficient run base to be good runners. The gains don’t come easily except of a few very genetically gifted (ie, the kid that won the 1 mile race in grade 4).
During the off season, try and run a minimum of 45 min every day slowly. You don’t need to go fast. Just put in slow miles. Six days per week. This does not have to be scientific. Just easy slow miles. Slow enough so that you are RECOVERED for every for run. No intervals, No Fartlek, No Speed. You can run in hilly terrain, but slow down your pace so you climb aerobically. You may need to walk up hill. That is Ok. Try and ensure that your feet land under your hips. Don’t overstride
YOU HAVE TO RUN SLOW TO RUN FAST
There is no secret silver bullet to running. Once you have been running for 5 years 52 weeks per year, at least 3 times per week for 45-60 min, you will find running is second nature. This is what it takes to build a good solid running base.
You should avoid intervals all year except perhaps a few weeks around key races. You won’t get fast in a hurry on this program. First you will build a base. You will strenthen all the small stabilizing elements in your body and joining tissue You brain will get accustomed to running with good form slowly first Over time, you will cover more distance at the same intensity on your easy runs After many years you will get fast You will remain injury free Do your intensity on the bike and swim and not on the run…your heart does not know the difference
If you were hoping to hear about a way to get fast quickly, there is NO solution. Pretty well all solutions that promise to make you run fast in a short elapsed period also leave you injured. Becoming a fast runner is all about patience.
I’d take the suggestions to increase mileage cautiously. I run pretty low mileage compared to other runners and triathletes. Something like 35-40 miles/week is pretty typical for me on 3 sessions minimum, 5 maximum. I’d love to get more mileage in, and I was doing more when I didn’t have a job, but now that I’m working and lucky to swim 1/week, I have to choose what’s most important.
I thought the PC’s helped me a tiny bit, nowhere near what Frank says, but probably non-zero. But not only are the expensive, they took all the fun out of riding a bike for me, so I had to get rid of mine. Oh yeah and they break a lot too
I don’t think there’s any real substitute for hard work when it comes to running, just like there isn’t for swimming. The danger with running is injury from all of the stress on your body, so you do need to build over time. 5k is on the short side for a training run if you’re interested in triathlon. My “short” runs are almost always over 10k and my preferred training run is in the 90 to 120 minute realm. As one of my buddies who runs 50k’s once said, “why even lace 'em up, dog?”
I agree with Acorn, PC’s help, but knowhere close to what Frank claims. I guess it depends on your baseline. I was already a reasonably proficient runner with 25 years of running under my belt before I got PC’s. I do find that the PC training helps me in the later run stages of a triathlon as I still have “knee lift” and can sprint if needed. I also find riding PC’s fun when I ride solo, but it is no fun riding them in a group for 6 hours and getting dropped constantly in the final 2 hours cause your hip flexors are fried. I know Frank is going to say that I just need to ride em more, but I don’t find it fun to ride PC’s all the time. I like riding a conventional bike too.
Back to the original discussion, there is no secret to running. You need time on your feet emphasizing good technique. The “Simon of Running” in me really has a hard time as a see people running along with HORRIBLE form. All I see is inefficiency and injury in motion. For some reason, people think that they can go and run mindlessly without thinking of form. They would not do this in a pool cause they have a coach screaming at them, but they plod on the run…mindlessly.
Pick one piece of technique work that you will emphasize for an entire week and think about only that item for each run.
I’m a pretty good runner (e.g. 34:43 10k PR at age 39). I think the key to getting faster is: 1. Lose weight; 2. Do weekly 1/4 mile intervals on a track or treadmill as fast as you can (at least 6); 3. Get racing flats; and 4. Do at least an 8-mile run each week. I suck at swimming so I will miss passing you on the run if this works for you.
