So something like “You were speeding” or “you look drunk” is a reason and I should hand over the ID? (I know this sounds like I’m being a smartass but I really want to know.)
I guess I’m wondering where to draw the line as to the cop having a good reason? What about if I’m a mexican male in South Phoenix? or a hollywood hills sweet sixteener? How do we determine that we need to ask for a second officer?
In the case presented, the officer had a resonable reason to stop the driver, but I would’ve refused to gve ID until a supervisor was called. That way the original cop could’ve been talked out of handing a ticket to a cyclist and gotten back to, I dunno, protectine the homeland from all the radical, fundamentalist, neo-fascist, quasi-maoist, evil doers…
But, again, that’s just me and my take on things. Living in the Baltimore and DC area, I don’t trust the police, nor their motives. I have rights in certain situations and I will exercise them. And, I would never, ever, give my SS# out to anyone, not even a cop. I’d refuse and let them arrest me. SS#'s aren’t on licenses anymore, but a soundex number is. That is sufficient in this case.
Bob
My rule of thumb:
“You’ll never met a bad fireman, but you’ll meet lots of bad cops.”
I hate that trick they pull, “Well you broke this law and this law too, but I’m only writing the ticket for this. So be thankful I’m so forgiving with my power over you.” At that point, as a matter of principle, it would be nice to say something back such as, “Thanks… you magnanimous douchebag.”
You’d think in a city like DC, with such a high crime rate, the cops would have better things to do than settle a personal score with a biker who wantonly disregarded an order (which is about the only reason he had to “chase” you).
Screw the ticket, you didn’t sign it, he won’t show in court for such an offense, don’t pay it!
He was definitely making the “Come on” waiving motion, back of the hand facing forward, fingers do the “come this way” curl motion. I guess it just wasn’t for me. Like I said, he was out of his car, so had to get in his car, stop traffic, chase me into the park and then stop me. So I sure he was really fuming by the time he caught up with me.
For that, $25 isn’t too bad.
One of the cyclists at the park who saw what happened goes: “Dude…you were in a police chase.” HAHA, that made me laugh.
I was the “dude you were in a police chase” guy. What you failed to mention was the number of police that were eventually involved. When I was approaching where you were pulled over, I thought that there had been a serious accident ahead. There were cop cars with lights blazing on both sides of the road. There were a few other cops milling about while the one was talking to you. Backup I guess in case you were going to try something!
Yeah, you were hammering pretty good after the whole thing.
I’m pretty sure I saw you!!
Were you about halfway between the first stop sign and the stop sign near the golf course when you were pulled over? It sounds like it was you. There were two cops and you looked pretty irritated. I assumed you ran a stop sign but I was trying to figuring out why a bike running a stop sign would require two cops and a confrontation. I wondered what could have happened that whole lap. Glad I got to hear the story.
Baader-Meinhof revisited. Late 70’s western EU: police presence, ID checks, punks, … Oh what fun. (They did get the bad guys though 
“You’ll never met a bad fireman, but you’ll meet lots of bad cops.”
Man, that is true. I ran a Turkey Trot on Thanksgiving 2001 in NYC to honor the firemen who were lost. Everyone had the same race number, 343, the number of firemen who did on 9/11, what an awesome race and atmosphere. With cops, the meathead attitude seems much more prevelant.
I grew up in NY and they have what’s called a “Junior License” for driving to work and night school. Well all the kids used to drive everywhere with one. Finally, the did a license check at my high school one day. I only lived about a mile from school but used to drive to have my truck to do things after school. Some of my friends who didn’t have parking stickers would actually park on my block. So I drive to school, see the ID check going on and say, screw this, I’ll go park at home and walk back.
Sure enough, they knew kids parked on my street and had a cop there too. In NYC they have what are called PBA cards, Policemen’s Benevolence Association, basically it means you knew a cop very closely and it’s sort of a get out of jail free card for minor traffic offenses. So the cop pulls me over and asks me where I am going, I was 2 houses away from my parents house at this point and point to my house and say “Right there.” He says, “Why?” I tell him it’s my house and he says, “So you’re telling me you live right there?” I say “Yup.” He asks for my driver’s license and I hand him it with the PBA card behind it as you are supposed to do. He looks at the license to verify the address and then says “This is just a Junior’s license and I can issue you a ticket.” Then he looks at the PBA card and said “Who issued this to you.” Well it was my neighbor who has outside mowing his lawn so I point the guy."
The cop says, “I am going to take your PBA card but not issue you a ticket.” So I pull into my driveway and the cop neighbor asks what happens so I tell him the story. He walks over to the other cop and says, “Excuse me, what does the back of that card say?” So the guy flips it over and it says “Property of New York City Police Department.” This was on Long Island so the guy who took it was a County cop. The neighbor flashes his NYPD badge and demands it back from the County cop, at which point he walks over to me and hands it right back to me. HAHA, oh man, that was awesome!!!
I was the “dude you were in a police chase” guy. What you failed to mention was the number of police that were eventually involved. When I was approaching where you were pulled over, I thought that there had been a serious accident ahead. There were cop cars with lights blazing on both sides of the road. There were a few other cops milling about while the one was talking to you. Backup I guess in case you were going to try something!
Yeah, you were hammering pretty good after the whole thing.
HAHA, why hello sir 
I can’t believe it, I have been getting emails from friends and people saying, “What the hell did you do that got 3 cop cars and a bunch of other cops to pull you over.” haha
Nothing better in DC for these guys to worry about???
Yup that was me. He also informed me that I ran the stop sign coming into HP. I said, “I recognize that I went through it sir, but that seems to be pretty common practice.” As I said that he looked back and a pack of 5-10 riders blew through it, haha.
Yeah, he was pissed I buzzed through that major intersection and apparently ignored his partner’s order and caused the chase. Man, a police chase on a bike, can’t believe it. Look at for the bald-headed muscular Park Police officer in the future
If I’m not mistaken it is law in at least some area’s that you MUST provide identification. A quick google pulled this up on the first try.
In a close decision released today, the United States Supreme Court has upheld a Nevada law that requires a person lawfully stopped by a police officer who has reasonable suspicion that the person has or will commit a crime to identify himself to the officer. In the case Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada,
AND
Later in the opinion, the Court said, “Answering a request to disclose a name is likely to be so insignificant in the scheme of things as to be incriminating only in unusual circumstances.”
So basically the likelihood of disclosing your name is unlikely to have any bearing on the case and thus you are required to disclose it.
LINK
Basically I see no reason to NOT provide your name etc. Personally if I were a cop, which I’m not, and I had reason enough to stop you, anything I could do I would if you were such an ass as to not give me your name. IOW you’d be going down town and staying there until you could be identified or as long as it was legal to hold you.
Seriously, color me cynical, but no cop gets that from me unless they have a good reason, not some bullshit about hand signals.
I’m also trying to figure out what this is supposed to mean. So “hand signals” are not to be obeyed? IMHO, disobeying hand signals is a far greater crime than running a stop sign. If the officer truly felt the OP blatantly disregarded his hand signals he had a VERY good reason to stop him and thus a VERY good reason to ask for ID’s.
~Matt
You make my point for me by including the words “lawfully stopped.” What I said was that the cops cannot stop you on the street and randomly ask you for ID without probably cause. Nor can they ask for ID without first saying why they’re asking for the ID.
BTW- you forgot to include this portion of the article, “The Supreme Court has long held that police cannot randomly stop people on the street and compel them to provide identification. The Nevada law does not contradict this rule since it only applies when an officer has reasonable suspicion that a person has committed or will commit a crime.”
Here’s a role play as to how it SHOULD go:
Cop: LEt me see some ID
Perp: Why do you need to see that sir?
Cop: Because _________ (insert reason)
Perp: Well here you are, but I assure you I’ve done nothing wrong and respectfully request a supervisor car here to view our interactions.
Here’s how it usually goes:
Cop: Give me your ID.
Perp: Why do you need my ID sir?
Cop: Just shut your damn pie hole and I’ll do the talking; now give me your ID dammit.
Perp: But, sir can you tell me why you need to see my ID, did I do something wrong?
Cop: Just shut up before I cuff your lycra clad ass and throw you and your tricycle into my care and haul you downtown. Give me your ID, now.
Bob
If the officer truly felt the OP blatantly disregarded his hand signals he had a VERY good reason to stop him and thus a VERY good reason to ask for ID’s.
Just to clarify, I didn’t directly disobey his hand signal so much as I interpreted a signal meant for someone else as though it was for me. Apparently, I did however, disregard the other officer’s order to stop, which like I said, I didn’t hear. Just wanted to make it clear it wouldn’t blow by a cop who was waiving at me to stop.
So something like “You were speeding” or “you look drunk” is a reason and I should hand over the ID? (I know this sounds like I’m being a smartass but I really want to know.)
I guess I’m wondering where to draw the line as to the cop having a good reason? What about if I’m a mexican male in South Phoenix? or a hollywood hills sweet sixteener? How do we determine that we need to ask for a second officer?
Yep those are all good reasons for you to hand over your ID. Escalating a confrontation with a police office is never really a good idea. You may well be within your rights but it is kinda like having the “right of way” while riding your bike and getting hit by a car to prove it, not very smart.
Essentially all that is needed to justify a police officer asking for your id is anything he determines warrants asking. Your choices are to either do as they say or be prepared to wage a multi year legal fight to vindicate your “constitutional rights”. There are things that are more fun than litigation.
Badge of Honor???..Bull Sh*t…
If you get one for speeding…then maybe yes…but not a ticket for ignoring a police officer. Not in my book!!
I guess if I pass a cop on my bike…cuss him out and slap him as I go by and he gives me a ticket…its a “Badge of Honor???”
We all have rights. We have the right to exercise those rights. To not exercise them out of fear of what migth happen is to pretty much piss on everything this country was built upon.
Live in fear of the police and under their thumb, that’s fine, but not me. No way.
Bob
No, by no means am I saying that you blatantly blew the hand signals. What I am saying is the cop HAD REASON to believe you may have done so, thus had reason to ask for ID.
~Matt
Right or wrong, telling cops “no” is dangerous business. In law school, I taught a clinic at a prison informing inmates of their rights with regards to police. When I was teaching them when they had a right to lawfully refuse a search, they just laughed their asses off. “Maybe you can tell a cop he can’t search your car, but none of us is getting away with that.” Sad, but i suspect they were right.
in this case, the cop was clearly an ass but he had plenty of cause for a stop. Not cooperating would have been, in my opinion, a mistake.
Maybe I’m misinterpreting your point as it applies here. Since this is a thread about someone whom was stopped by a cop for apparently disobeying hand signals, I thought your premis was that the cop had no right to ask the OP for ID and YOU would have said no. Am I wrong here?
BTW- you forgot to include this portion of the article,
No I didn’t include it because I thought it did not apply to the discussion as the officer DID have reasonable suspicion that a person has committed or will commit a crime.
As far as your role playing. How many times have you been stopped by the cops? Have they EVER pulled you over or stopped you without a reason? Obviously both of your scenario’s are valid but the later has never played out for me and I have never had someone else I know pulled over without a reason or suspicion. In fact why would a cop bother someone if they did not have a reason? Even in cases of profiling I’m willing to bet that even the dullest bulb in the police force can come up with a reasonable reason.
~Matt
Not cooperating would have been, in my opinion, a mistake.
Exactly especially since the cop was well within his rights. Basically not cooperating could have ended up with the OP with a resisting arrest charge as was filed on the guy in the article I posted.
I’ve been pulled over, stopped on the street etc., and the officer always has a “Reasonable reason” despite the fact that it’s usually a complete BS reason.
I was once pulled over as a teenager by a cop that was following me because he “Thought he smelled alcohol coming from my car”. I was very polite he peeked in my car and I was on my way.
~Matt
I was a cop for 22 years…I like your second situation. “give me your ID cuz I said so”!!
Just kidding.
The cops can’t just stop you randomly and ask for ID. As you said. I also want you to know that I “ALWAYS” had legal reason to ask for ID’s. No one ever ask to speak with my “supervisor”…oh, I forgot…I WAS the supervisor : )
I had a few people not have ID or refuse…and they ended up in jail for the failing to provide ID and the original offense (criminal or traffic). If you fail to provide ID, even in a traffic case, he has legal right to place in you jail as he now has reasonable belief that you will not appear in court!!
If you get stopped…don’t agrue (thats why we have courts), give up your ID, take the ticket, go on your way. Its a 10 minute deal. If you fail to do any of the above, its gets really ugly. And as I said before…go to court, thats why we have them.
I always figure I’ll pay it off, even if I was right, since there were plenty of times I was wrong and didn’t get caught…I consider it paying my dues : )