Hydrosloth SwimVember

Swimming
1

Why we suck.

Like many of y’all I’ve been swimming for decades.

Like most of you progress has been erratic and fleeting. A litany of well-informed and well-meaning coaches and years-long commitments to master’s groups and swim smoother not harder programs has netted me enough knowledge to coach at a national level, yet swimming a sub 2 minute hundred for me is a big deal.

This is usually the time of year, where I commit again full-time to being the best/fastest/smoothest swimmer I can be. This year, I’m not so sure. Regardless of whether I do or not, I decided to do an experiment. I called it where/when I suck.

Many of “us” can swim ok for a short period of time but then things fall apart. What I wanted to identify was how long I could swim before that good form fell apart, and specifically what fell apart. That list of factors seems to be

Poor turns at the wall.

Running out of breath.

Muscle fatigue leading to sloppiness.

Faltering mental focus.

Neurological fatigue or disruption.

Current physical self, in good health doing cardio about 8 times a week. 3 of those are swims. Last tri I swam a 31 minute 1500 with wetsuit. Calm conditions. Drafted 70% of the time. Tight lines.

Here’s how I did the test.

500 M easy swim as warm up.

3 minutes full rest.

1 length. 30 seconds rest. X 2.

This went ok, as each 25 was about 28 seconds. Form and breathing was good

2 lengths. 30 seconds rest. X 2

The 1st one was not good as I was sloppy in hitting the wall and pushing off and I had a bit of fatigue. 58 seconds. The 2nd rep went smoother but got the same time.

4 lengths. 1 minute rest. X 3

Some revelations here. The 1st two lengths were ok but when I hit the wall at the end of my 3rd length, I really noticed I was barely moving. The goal was to swim all of this easy but I had to push it a bit to make it to the end of the 4th length. A bit breathless. A 2:04. I did work on swimming more relaxed at the start for the other 3 and it seemed to work as most times were about 2:02. Things that I noticed when things did start to fall apart were arms not fully extending or not pointing in the proper direction despite being mindful of this. Keep in mind that these were all done with a full minute rest. The next time I go to the pool, I will do this again but work on a rest interval of 15 seconds for the 25s and the 50s and 30 seconds for the hundreds. It’ll be interesting to see just how bad things get.

At this point I’m not looking for remedy, I’m just trying to pinpoint what are the top 2 or 3 things that make me suck.

2

just going to mention on one small point in here. what do you mean by faltering mental focus, neuro fatigue or disruption? one way i can measure this is by how dialled in i am with my stroke count.

i am a newbie to stroke count, started doing it this year and its just opened up another side of things for me.

i have had about 5 weeks away from long course pools recently and now just getting back to it. before it was easy for me to count my strokes in a long course, then just did 25 yards, now its back to long course and i am losing count after about 8 or 9 as i am just marking how close i get to 25m on my stroke counts.

that is a sign of me losing focus, losing count.

that is probably a sign of me not swimming as mentally engaged, as focussed, as relaxed and in tune. which in an abstract sense is not swimming as well as i have in the past, putting speed to one side.

what other things can you do, that r not linked to time, to make yourself swim ‘better’? enjoyment more? how far you can glide off the wall without doing any fly kicks? can you do a push off the wall, no kicks, and by the time you stop your heels are past the flags? do you have a training log of your swims to list the small things working on and enjoyments? a lower stroke count at easy efforts ? how many more strokes do you need to use to start to pick up the speed? how long can you swim at a hard stroke count for you?

what is it for you?

3

sorry to hit you with another one. when you write best / fastest / smoothest swimmer, just worth bearing in mind that these can mean different things. you hear some olympians and they say that even in retirement they are swimming as good as they ever have. they feel their techniq is as good as ever it was, obv they cant hit their PBs or get close to them, but they still think their technique is better. this is all voodoo hoodoo shit to some and maybe it is just all gobbledeegoop shit but just a few thoughts

4

Do You Lose Your Technique When You Retire?

5

I’m on this Reddit thread, lots of people posting videos of them swimming and asking for advice. Interesting how virtually all of them have the same fundamental issue, something that (IMO) does not get emphasised enough and that’s catch and pull. That’s where the power comes from. Even if you’re not breathing right, not rotating, poor body position, crappy kick, if you’ve got a decent catch and pull you will still motor.

6

Ill respond here in the morning

7

Thanks for the advices!
You made me think about that mental engagement part.
I count strokes once in a while, it’s been either 25 or 26 since the year 2001, generally regardless of effort, though my 1/2 Iron times for the swim have dropped about 4 minutes.
Been tracking the swims, ever since then. Usually just time and distance - thanks for the idea.
Maybe it’s just disengagement in the pool environment, my focus and flow is waaaay sharper in the lakes that I swim in from about March to October… and I’m always counting strokes there (mainly for siting).

Thanks for the push.

8

I wrote a piece about this sort of thing for the magazine a few years back when the pools opened up again.
https://triathlonmagazine.ca/training/three-lessons-a-triathlete-learned-on-his-return-to-swimming-during-the-covid-19-pandemic/

9

nice article. how bleak was getting back in the pools after they had been closed. id been swimming ow and heaps in a wetsuit, but getting back in on a pace clock and flip turn was a shock to the system. the wetsuit messsed me up and took a while to get back into a normal stroke.

im just doing lots of stroke counting swimming at moment, maybe you can just work on trying to do 23-24 strokes over per lap and build that tolerance up. will feel whackky at first and then maybe you can get a new ‘best’ stroke count for one lap. i know heaps of pitfalls with gliding and stuff like that but just something to keep it fresh, at 25-26 strokes you have heaps of room to lengtehn out and see if you can find some improvements there

10

The biggest problem I’ve seen in myself and other “aging” swimmers is the lower back flexibility. Specifically:

Masters swimmers look like they are doing flip turn sitting in a chair.
Dolphin kicking is initiated at the knees, not the hips.

I don’t like swimming like this.

11

Flip turns. Ha! Sorcery.

1 Like
12

Another Saturday - another return to the scene of the crime.

Did a bit of a Tower 26 inspired warm-up (24 minutes) and then did the same test as last week… this time with 20 seconds rest.

I tried to swim at as close to the same level of effort for each segment.

25 metre times (4) - all between 28 and 31 seconds

50 metre times (4) - all at about 1:04

100 metre times (4) - ranged from 2:07 to 2:20.

Here’s the insights.

1st off: I swam 2 times since last Saturday’s session. A mix of drill, kick, relaxed, and endurance stuff. So maybe my swim muscles and cardio are coming around a bit.

2nd point: The mental disengagement in the 100s has pretty much disappeared, thanks somewhat to me doing stroke count.

3rd point: Breathing has really come around. Happy with that.

4th point: The big revelation! Have you ever tried swimming with a band around your ankles? How many metres can you swim? I can do about 1/2 a length. That’s just over 10 metres before my legs sink to the bottom. In the latter parts of my 100s, where I was really slowing down, that was the sensation I was having. My arms had to compensate for my dragging legs, and naturally, my cardio output had to increase to meet the demand.

Ok, maybe now I could use some advices

13

Swimming with a band is about the turning on the hips, you kind of have to do it where you swivel and link your hips to your stroke to stay up. I like doing backstroke with a band around my ankles, feels quite nice to be honest. Got some swim skills if you can do long course 50ms with a band and not sink

Have you ever swam with a tempo trainer from finis? I am thinking of getting one to try to improve my stroke rate awareness.

14

Whenever I swim I’m always really present, I never really have my mind wander unless there is a very high stress work or personal issue happening and then I just mentally think ‘nah f that dont let it ruin my swim i will worry about it later’. I cant compartmentalise in other aspects but when im swimming i can - i suspect many can compartmentalise when they are exercising.

15

Another test session at the pool. Same protocol.
4X25, 50, & 100.
All on 15 sec. rest
25’s came in at 29 or 30.
50’s were 1:02-1:05
100’s were 2:07-2:12

Maybe an off day but even in the later stages of the 50’s the form began to deteriorate. Mainly body position. Specifically sinking hips.The 100’s were even worse.

Of course with the drag, it increased the strain on the arms and cardio (the legs were at this point a lost cause). The 15 second rest time was reduced to about 3 seconds compounding the deterioration. Trying to keep my output at a BLUE level (blue/green/yellow/red) actually made things worse as the hip drag was further worsened.

Some takeaways.

Expect to have to increase the effort for the same speed after awhile (how long the good form lasts is HIGHLY variable). Simply put, insisting a BLUE output when a GREEN is needed to maintain better form and momentum is needed.

There is not a lot of sense in continuing to swim when your form has fallen to shit (in a pool practice). Take the needed rest to maintain form. Of course finding the right amount of rest, relative to the amount of time you have in the pool and the desired goals of the practice has to be considered.

The use of toys (PB, SN, PD, FN) once in a while (how often, well that’s a discussion on its own) can be one way of somewhat maintaining good form so an athlete can get closer to building up to target race distance.

The elephant in the room, at least as of 9 o’clock on Saturday November 30th, is how the heck do you prevent hips from sinking. Lots has been written on this. Time to start reading on it. Anyone reading have a couple of starting points?

16

Sinking hips and tips for avoiding it

Just so I can picture your swimming:

What sort of kick do you do?
What sort of stroke rate roughly?
Breathe on both sides or just one?

Do your heels breathe the surface?

17

Knowing what flaws are causing your hips to sink would be a greater sorcery even than flip turns. Ultimately, even simply a slow pace can be the direct cause.

Are you swimming with a club or getting regular lessons?

As a complete novice, I could read all the material ever printed on playing the guitar or playing golf, but it would be a heck of a lot more effective to just have someone show me instead.

18

I do a regular 2 beat kick.

Stroke rate is always 26 per 25 metres.

I swim on one side in the pool but in the lake I often do both sides.

In the 1st part of an interval my heels can break the surface but they sink after.

Thanks for your concern + ideas.

19

Cool reference!

I agree, the slow pace could contribute to the sinking hips, as I’d think you’d need a certain amount of momentum to lift the hips to horizontal.

Swam masters from 98-2016. Went from a 90 minute IM swim to usually about an 80.

Sometimes watching works, usually not. Learning to play guitar right now. Glacial progress. But much fun.

As a side note, I frustrated my instructors at social dance classes because my they would model the moves, and when that didn’t work, they would contort my body to conform to the shape required to do the step, but the move would never stick.

20

Am a 2 beater as well

Before I was very two sided in my swimming, so my left pull and left kick felt like it was just that side of the body, and my right arm and right kick were just that side.

Something that helped me feel a lot more balanced was to touch my feet together when I do my left pull. So I have just taken my breath, I kick down with my left foot and pull through with my left arm, and then my right foot just comes up behind my left foot and touches it lightly. It is not a full cross over but its a slight touching. This is promoting some kind of hipp roll and ‘core activation’. My natural stroke is a bit of a catch up, two beat kick. The best to ever do that is Mack Horton, as he has even done 2 beat kicking in his 400s and swimming 3:43-3:44 in those races. Obv he swam a 341 in Rio when he 6 beat kick but I dont quite know what happened along the way.

Anyway just to say you can still optimise your own stroke down to a 400 type speed using a 2 beat kick. Back in the 80s they could swim 3:50 or so, but that 2 beat kick was a bit different - more of a double cross over on both sides. So both styles of 2 beat kick can still be really fast, even down to short distances (the catch up FQS style or the cross over).

Have a look at this video to get an idea of what I mean about Mack and his feet coming very close together. Maybe one of your kicks may benefit from coming closer together.

The other thing - dont know where you look but dont look forward so far. Sometimes just looking further down straight at bottom of pool can bring the hips up

Many other things can contribute to sinking hips, and not keeping your arms extended out in the reach part of the stroke, and dropping elbow too much, can produce so much drag and resistance it sends the hips down.