please…all your smog blows into the central valley where I live and sits in the bowl.
…And why by a used car in Colorado?..
Just logistics. I have a month here in Co, and car, to get from lot to lot. In Ca I would have to rent a car and then find a reliable ride quickly in a city I’m unfamiliar with.
Did I mention I’m doing ImCda during the transition from state to state? I’m even toying with driving from Denver to CdA then straight on to Pasadena. None of which sounds fun.
Somebody come back with a model, in full, which can justify the current levels protective of human health for, say, benzene in water or air, and honestly submit that its not insanely conservative.
Huh? Betchya can’t.
Why should someone have to refute your “because I say so” with a full model? You haven’t given anyone any reason to believe you.
Also I’m wondering what you think the “green agenda” is. What motivation do greenies have other than wanting cleaner air, water etc?
oh come now. You in the valley wouldn’t have any water at all if it weren’t for the bureau of reclamation. “your” water. faugh. Only people in this state who have access to fresh water year 'round are the folks up in the mountains. Everyone else’s water is sourced from there. Except LA. They steal from the colorado river.
True fact. But usually it sits in San Jose for a few days first. Then the wind kicks up and blows it all over the hill. Then it builds up again. All the more reason to clean up transit.
People in the valley have a giant underground aquifer courtesy of sierras. All we have to do is sink a well. Quite a bit more green than stealing all the water from Yosemite valley.
Everybody likes clean air and water.
When clean air and water become a political special interest controlled by unelected officials is when the wheel come off.
How do you propose to keep them clean then? Natural resources like air and water are the classic example of the tragedy of the commons. The free market doesn’t work to keep the air and water clean, so that becomes a role for the government, unless there’s another entity you see taking over this role.
There are a number of policy instruments the government can use to keep air and water clean, like taxes, cap & trade systems, regulation etc. But conservatives don’t seem to be a fan of any of these.
There are a number of policy instruments the government can use to keep air and water clean, like taxes, cap & trade systems, regulation etc. But conservatives don’t seem to be a fan of any of these.
Because you have to be an undereducated fucktard to think they are good ideas. Dont for a second think that EVERY business that has to pay Cap and Trade will not pass that cost right on to you - the consumer. Or do what smart business owners do, move production to countries who are not combative against business and make higher profits with the MFG. of a product outside of the US and outside fo the regulation of idiot hippie liberal tree hugging babies who oddly never ever limit their own personal use of products…Al Gore and the “Chairman of the Board” of the Hipocrite Hippies.
I think a thorough cost/benefit analysis must be applied to any proposed regulation. Examples:
The CA High Speed Rail - sure its cute but $60 bil to keep a few cars off the highway??
Conversion of gas station nozzles last year which cost businesses $50-75K per station for a system that cuts emissions less than 1%, assuming you don’t spilling any gas on the ground when filling.
Our city of 50k people converted all of their busses to nat. gas. Sure it saves a little smoke but holy shit, all that money for something that hardly anyone uses??
The problem we have with govt. control over these items is that the end always justifies the means when you are spending other peoples money.
Because you have to be an undereducated fucktard to think they are good ideas.
OK. Personal attacks are nice
Dont for a second think that EVERY business that has to pay Cap and Trade will not pass that cost right on to you - the consumer.
** That’s correct. The consumer should pay more for goods that are carbon intensive. I’m willing to accept that**
Or do what smart business owners do, move production to countries who are not combative against business and make higher profits with the MFG. of a product outside of the US
This is a problem it’s true. But not an unsolvable one. Instituting similar rules in most/all countries will be very challenging, but perhaps import taxes on goods from countries that don’t have carbon taxes are feasible. At any rate there are ways around this.
and outside fo the regulation of idiot hippie liberal tree hugging babies who oddly never ever limit their own personal use of products…Al Gore and the “Chairman of the Board” of the Hipocrite Hippies.
** aaaaaaand more ad hominem attacks. Nice that you bookended things. And just to respond a bit there are tons of people I know who are concerned about this issue and do indeed modify their life style based on reducing personal carbon emissions etc. It’s true there are a lot of handwaving people who put bumperstickers on their car and don’t change what their actions a bit, but that’s human nature.**
You think that we will tariff things from other coutries that are carbon centric? Please! All while NASCAR is the #1 growing sport? All while hippies still wont admit that Hybrid cars are terribly more pollutive than a comperable Civic? All while the “carbon offset” of a gigantic windmill is a time frame far longer than the functional life of the windmill? (note: the majority of windmills are made in China).
Just go into WalMart and look at ANY prouduct and see where it is made. All while we want to loan money to the EU and we owe China billions…you think the hippies can put a scratch in the sand in front of China? I sure hope the hippies and Cap/Trade lackies like red stars if that is the case…
Oh, and no Polar bear has EVER EVER drowned in nature that anyone can PROVE…not even Al Gore.
You think that we will tariff things from other coutries that are carbon centric?
Politically difficult for sure. But it might happen
Please! All while NASCAR is the #1 growing sport? All while hippies still wont admit that Hybrid cars are terribly more pollutive than a comperable Civic?
I’m not sure exacly how NASCAR is relevant, except that their costs would go up under a carbon tax. And I just finished a large project analyzing life cycle emissions of hybrids. I seriously doubt you know anywhere near as much as I do about this issue. And while it’s true that hybrids aren’t a panacea they are much better than current gasoline vehicles. Even including manufacturing, shipping, battery replacement. The whole 9 yards. They come out about 20-25% cleaner than a comparable gasoline car (like a civic).
All while the “carbon offset” of a gigantic windmill is a time frame far longer than the functional life of the windmill? (note: the majority of windmills are made in China).
** This again is simply untrue. A well-sited windmill pays back its embodied energy in a year or two regardless of where it was made. And typical numbers used for windmill lifespan are 20-30 years, so a windmill will usually pay back 15 times the energy it took to produce it. That’s not that far off the payback level of a coal plant.**
Just go into WalMart and look at ANY prouduct and see where it is made. All while we want to loan money to the EU and we owe China billions…you think the hippies can put a scratch in the sand in front of China? I sure hope the hippies and Cap/Trade lackies like red stars if that is the case…
Oh, and no Polar bear has EVER EVER drowned in nature that anyone can PROVE…not even Al Gore.
**I’m a little puzzled by the rest of this. I know there are geopolitical issues to deal with in all this. Not really my department. But what’s with the polar bears? **
You think that we will tariff things from other coutries that are carbon centric?
Politically difficult for sure. But it might happen
Please! All while NASCAR is the #1 growing sport? All while hippies still wont admit that Hybrid cars are terribly more pollutive than a comperable Civic?
I’m not sure exacly how NASCAR is relevant, except that their costs would go up under a carbon tax. And I just finished a large project analyzing life cycle emissions of hybrids. I seriously doubt you know anywhere near as much as I do about this issue. And while it’s true that hybrids aren’t a panacea they are much better than current gasoline vehicles. Even including manufacturing, shipping, battery replacement. The whole 9 yards. They come out about 20-25% cleaner than a comparable gasoline car (like a civic).
All while the “carbon offset” of a gigantic windmill is a time frame far longer than the functional life of the windmill? (note: the majority of windmills are made in China).
This again is simply untrue. A well-sited windmill pays back its embodied energy in a year or two regardless of where it was made. And typical numbers used for windmill lifespan are 20-30 years, so a windmill will usually pay back 15 times the energy it took to produce it. That’s not that far off the payback level of a coal plant.
Just go into WalMart and look at ANY prouduct and see where it is made. All while we want to loan money to the EU and we owe China billions…you think the hippies can put a scratch in the sand in front of China? I sure hope the hippies and Cap/Trade lackies like red stars if that is the case…
Oh, and no Polar bear has EVER EVER drowned in nature that anyone can PROVE…not even Al Gore.
**I’m a little puzzled by the rest of this. I know there are geopolitical issues to deal with in all this. Not really my department. But what’s with the polar bears? **
Oh jeez, here we go; may I: “Why should someone have to refute your “because I say so” with a full model? You haven’t given anyone any reason to believe you.” These would be your very own words.
Because I have seen studies which refute the very words you speak here, I seriously doubt your blather regarding embodied energy (just assume ultimate life of all components of your electric vehicles and the added transmission burden wind turbines place on the environment, as well as the local environmental concerns - ah yes, your models fall short). You, on the other hand, given the fact that you may even understand my statement regarding toxics modeling and human health, won’t take the effort to accept my challenge. Why? Because you know I’m correct.
Let’s just then add this to the fact that you regard CO2 as a noxious gas. Lessee, 2+2 equals progressive and at some point I mistrust your work.
You really think that anyone is going to buy that an Insight has less impact than a Civic - for REAL WORLD use? The Insight has far more “raw” materials in its production than a Civic that is almost 100% recycled materials - from metals to plastics. The Civic also get MUCH better real world highway milage than an Insight (hell, a BMW M3 V8 gets better highway milage at real speeds). And, if you are in an M3 you dont look like a jag in an electric car! (surely you have seen the South Park “Smug” episode).
One hospital I work at recently spent millions to put a windmill up - for pollitical reasons, there is NO COST SAVINGS for the hospital as the power from the thing is not even a dent in the real load and resiliansy that we need in a medical environment…but spending the cash on a pin wheel made some folks feel good. The fact is that where I live we get our power from Nuke plants that have far less impact than even windmills and dont fuck up entire fields for acres and acres in the process. Sure sure, some will defer back to Chrenobyl (night and day from US Nuke plants) and 3 Mile Island…but the fact is that it is the best option for electricity - period.
As for the polar bears…they are the common “global warming” empathy scare tactic
no spell check on this server with a damn way too small 1U KVM keyboard
no spell check on this server with a damn way too small 1U KVM keyboard
Get the hell out of the basement closet…
Any porn down there?
I wish I was in a basement closet - I am behind a Wound Care Center watching fat people get their necrotic toes wrapped and rubbed with Regranex…yummy. Once they are done most patients are sure to head right to the bus stop and have a smoke before going back to vascular or to dialsys.
haha. Fair enough. I didn’t cite my crap either. I have paper copies of the sources in my office, so I can dig them out a little later today. I can tell you that the windmill figure comes from (well, a lot of places but the one I remember) a text book called “Renewable & Efficient Electric Power Systems” by Gilbert Masters.
The vehicle figures are from my own project but similar results can be found in this paper: http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/es702178s
Of course there’s another professor at CMU who disagrees and believes that hybrids aren’t worthwhile. So it’s reasonable to disagree, but I happen to think they are in most cases.
So it’s reasonable to disagree,
I’m fond of citing Twain: “When experts disagree, we fools are free to choose…”
Think I’ll go gas my truck up…
The Civic also get MUCH better real world highway milage than an Insight (hell, a BMW M3 V8 gets better highway milage at real speeds). And, if you are in an M3 you dont look like a jag in an electric car! (surely you have seen the South Park “Smug” episode).
I have seen the southpark episode and I thought it was pretty funny. The attitude some people get is quite silly. The problem with the M3 (and they’re definitely fun cars) is then you look like a cock in an M3. BMW drivers just have that rep. As far as fuel mileage I just have to disagree. The insight is a ridiculously aero car, with a small engine, and drivers who (usually) drive it gently. All of which adds up to very good fuel mileage. I have driven a prius, and that thing routinely gets 50 mpg. No M3 has ever gotten that.
One hospital I work at recently spent millions to put a windmill up - for pollitical reasons, there is NO COST SAVINGS for the hospital as the power from the thing is not even a dent in the real load and resiliansy that we need in a medical environment…but spending the cash on a pin wheel made some folks feel good.
** it’s entirely possible that it was a political decision, but you misunderstand the way the financials work. You sell the power to the grid, and get an investor to take ownership so that they can get the tax benefits (because presumably your hospital is non-profit and has no tax liability). If they didn’t get a tax-investor then that was kinda dumb, because they’re losing out on the Gov’t incentives. Whether the thing pays off or not, I don’t know. Windmills that are put up to make a political statement might not, because they often aren’t sited in places where the wind is good. It also depends on how much you get the for the power.**
The fact is that where I live we get our power from Nuke plants that have far less impact than even windmills and dont fuck up entire fields for acres and acres in the process. Sure sure, some will defer back to Chrenobyl (night and day from US Nuke plants) and 3 Mile Island…but the fact is that it is the best option for electricity - period.
I’m not sure I’d go as far as to say nuclear is our best option. But it’s certainly a fairly good option. There are problems; we’ve got to figure out what to do with the waste, and even if we start building today we won’t have an operating nuke plant for at least 8 years. But I do agree we should be building more.
As for the polar bears…they are the common “global warming” empathy scare tactic
** I’m not trying to scare anyone. I believe climate change is a problem. But I don’t really believe in scaring people.**