OK, so I’ve been a serious cyclist for years and a competetive one for the last few. I’ve now read several threads and heard several comments from riders who know their s@%* that say something to the effect of not being able move or even bike the day after a TT.
I know how to exert myself. I can run 5 miles so hard that I can’t walk the next day, I can lift so hard that I can’t pick myself up, and I can swim hard enough so that I can’t lift my arms. BUT, I have never biked so hard that I couldn’t get back on the next day for an easy 20 miles or so. I’ve done a couple 40K TT’s, long 40+mile mtn bike races, and even a 24-hour mtb race, but I’ve never been bed-ridden or felt like I couldn’t bike if I needed to the day after.
How do you push yourself so hard? How do you destroy yourself like that on a bike?
Oh… and I completely admit to hijacking the 9 mile TT thread.
I almost put myself in the hospital after a 10 mile TT once - my piss was a color of orange that any Wisconsin deer hunter would be proud to wear, and I had a tough time walking for two days. I heard that one of the US’s top 1 kilometer riders couldn’t get off the velodrome floor for nearly 15 minutes a few years ago after going near the 1 minute mark. It is possible to go that hard, but not easy.
It actually takes a ton of practice to go that hard. I can’t do it now. It would probably take a season or two of concentrating on short TT to get back there. You have to push yourself through heartrate limits that just aren’t easy to come by. In that one particular TT, I held a HR in the low 190’s the whole time, and my max was probably just 8 or 9 beats higher. I can barely get above 180 now, although my max is probably about the same.
The mental aspect is so different as well. EVERY pedal stroke is sacred, and every part of the pedal stroke is sacred. Right now, I’d be lucky to cycle that way for 1 minute. A couple of years ago I could hold it for 20. You have to commit yourself to it for a while. I personally could never do “easier” races (where you are running a HR of 170’s let’s say) and have my best TT in the same span of time.
funny - i had exactly the same thoughts when i read the 9mile tt thread! i can’t imagine riding hard enough to need more than a day of recovery … and i’m not the slowest
I’m one of those guys who does the 40K in 1:00:00.01 and can’t seem to break that 60 min mark. I figure torturing myself like that is the way to do it. I want is soooo bad.
I like that “every stroke is sacred” line becaue that is the same as my running mantra.
I struggled with the hour mark for a while until I changed 2 things - lots of short TT where I learned to stay mentally focused and keep the pressure on for the whole race (that every pedal stroke is sacred thing) and I hit the weight room and started doing squats and lunges (big weight, not those 25x100 lbs sets) 2 times a week. After about 4 months, I never had to worry about that hour mark again (although I’m probably fading back to that mark right now…)
I agree. I have pushed myself so hard in ITT’s that I am seeing double in the last 100m and my legs are so sore they feel completely disconnected from my body - but the next day I am good to go. That’s the great thing about the recovery with cycling.
That’s why on the thread where the guy was asking if it was OK to to the 9 mile TT on the thursday before the HIM on Sunday, If I had more background info and based on what that info was, I would have been leaning towards saying “yes” to do the TT. Go at about 95% in the TT. When you get out on the bike in the HIM, that pace will feel like a joke - as it should.
I know I’m on the rivet in a TT when I can taste vomit in the back of my throat. And, if I went any harder, I would be tossing cookies. That’s how “I” know I’m going hard. This is a personal thing for sure. Everybody’s pain tolerance, cycling base, ability to focus, motivation, are on different levels. You have to find yourself through trial and error. And when you get it right, it just hurts so good. Yeah, you’re completely blown at the end of the TT, but it felt so good to go so fast. It takes time for the adjustments to me made within your mind & body.
Doesn’t this just come down to conditioning and the ability of the body to recover from lack of conditioning???
The reason why I say this is because the pro’s cycle the stage in the TdF after a ITT pretty well.
Specificity, baby.
Every November when I get back on the trainer and do my first 2x20’ of the winter, my legs feel like I did squats, and they are sore the next day. After about 5 of those sessions, I can’t hardly tell I did the workout 6 hours later. I start stacking tempo runs onto days when I do 2x20’ in the morning.
A 20k TT should be a dunk in terms of recovery. I’ve seen some pretty ugly finishes in those things by the truly hard-core, dig-deep guys. Slobberin’ and pukin’ and eyes all bloodshot and snot bubbles blown all over the face…
Ten minutes later, we’re all having a good time in the parking lot, deciding whether to ride 15 miles or 30 miles for coffee.
That’s why I like cycling. It’s only hard *while you’re doing it. *Running hard can hurt for hours or days afterwards.
Sure, that’s why I had to get a 1hr sports massage yesterday and felt like I was 100 yrs old. Everything hurt, even my toes. Now I feel much better, and will get some riding in tonight. I was so spun up for the last two weekends that I could not sleep Sunday nights.
After 4 hrs on Sat and 7 Sun, 11 total hours of sprints, climbing, and chasing the 50yr old masters guys that put a whipping on us “weak” CAT 3 30ish yr olds.
Now I know why I was slow in 04/05, I had no idea what hard training was … working through the summer with this masters cat 1/2/3 team and I will be ready to start the 20+/wk hr base 1 training in Oct.
Look out Sojourner, I am calling you out! See you at Palomar in Jan 06! Seatpost or not!
I think you’re absolutely right. Specificity of training should include the ability to recover quickly. Maybe those you can’t move the next day can’t move because they’ve never forced themselves to.
Hard is a relative term. When I suffered last weekend and spoke to the TT specialists afterwards they were knowhere near the state i was in. Psychological conditioning is the best method. Telling yourself to go harder and to willingly accept the pain that comes with it is hard but you can practise it. you need to fail before you know what the limits are. It’s worht noting that hypnotism increased a weightlifters ability becuase it got round his pain receptors…
I thought my bike max HR was 200 until I won a team time trial over in France last year when it was upto 206 at times.
You should feel like death afterwards and be unable to drive for at least a good hour afterwards. Headaches are common as is soreness. I go with Gary, just because it’s non load bearing, massages are often required afterwards.
It’s lucky fur us over here in the uk that TTing is a bit of an institution so we have lots of chances to practise stuff out.
Well, it is a thought process. It doesn’t involve fitness at all- it is a totally seperate issue. It is about getting the highest amount of your potential for as long as possible without let up.
Superdave characterized it very well when he said “It is feathering the throttle against red line”. That is the best description of time trialing I have ever heard. For a good time trialist with an anaerobic threshold of 188 bpm you can look at there heartrate telemetry for a 20-40 kilometer time trial and see the graph go above 188 for a few seconds and back down for a few seconds and just kind of “hover” around that threshhold.
That ability boils down to attentiveness under discomfort. Some people’s “thought loop” does not readily facilitate calm, analytical concentration during a high state of physical discomfort. I’m not sure why some people can handle it and others can’t. If a person is highly motivated I am convinced it is something that can be learned. I learned it. Perhaps it is a sophisticated, more cognative version of “fight or flight”.
Bottom line, some people do not emotionally and intellectually perform well at a high state of discomfort, so they back off until they reach a more tolerable level of sensation. The ability to tolerate discomfort and maintain good cognative reasoning under physical stress it what is required to go hard without let up and do little “mini blow-ups” and “mini recoveries” while keeping the exertion rate very high.
That is what makes a good time trialist. That is how they do it.
A 20k TT should be a dunk in terms of recovery. I’ve seen some pretty ugly finishes in those things by the truly hard-core, dig-deep guys. Slobberin’ and pukin’ and eyes all bloodshot and snot bubbles blown all over the face…
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------OK. Ashburn, when did you see UK GearMuncher TT’ing?
This thread’s a gem. They don’t call the bike a Pain Machine for nothing. The other message tends to get through more often; the one that says put in the time, then the results will come. These posts enforce what that small voice inside tells me is true…that is, major bike improvement requires titanic effort. Newbies pay heed!