I am doing Silverman this weekend, it is my second triathlon. The first one I did was the Halfmax and I did low 190s – that race wasn’t flat, but it is nothing like Silverman. If I was doing a flat IM, I would probably go for something in the 170s, but Silverman is very hilly. Should I go for an average in the 150s and assume my NP will be up in the 170s? I was planning to climb in the 200-215W range, FWIW.
Silverman is all up and all down - never that steep (except 3 horrible yet short little 18% climbs at mile 100 which I would walk up if I were you). I raced a half IM sept 2005 - average 185w - norm 192 - 2:40 at Big Kahuna (which was a tad high for me - CP60 220 and I ran a painful/slowing toward the end 1:40 and should have run a 1:35-7 or so…). At Silverman my avg watts were 148 - norm 156. I ran well for 13.1 and then dropped 2-3 min/miles for the next 13.1 (ended with a 4:18 or so).
Anyway - if you aim to “climb” at 215-220 then you will spend 70% of your time at those watts as you are almost always climbing - there are no flats - you’ll blow. I would climb at < half IM watts and try to be closer to ideal IM watts for the climbs. Overall - 170 watts if you race a half in the low 190’s seems high - what is your CP60? I’d aim for about 70% for the entire race.
You’ll likely be on the bike for 6:30+ (I’m 150 lbs and I took 7 hours at 148/156 watts). The run is fairly tough, too - so aim on the low side for watts on the bike…I felt 156 normalized for me was a tad high or I just ran out of gas at 10 hrs…
Have fun - Great race!
Dave
Hi Dave-
Thank you for your input. I have some info from my friend Ezra that you sent him, which has been helpful – I was a little discouraged by the amount of time you spent below 10mph!!
Anyway, is that a typo . . . you did those watts for the half and Silverman with a CP60 of 220W? If so, you were riding with the needle a lot further to the right than I plan to. I can do 245-250ish for an hour and I weigh in at a svelte 129lbs. Based on last year’s times, I think I will be right around 6 hours on the bike, hopefully under. So if I am climbing 70% of the time, that would be 4.2 hours out of 6 > 200W. Hmmm . . . that does sound ambitious. I might have to lower that a bit . . . guess I’ll have to think about it. My background is in cycling so I want to push my advantage, but I’m very concious of not blowing the run.
Thanks again for the info.
Eric
Dang it. I wish I had one of those watt machines or knew what you guys were talking about since i’m doing the race too.
No typo - I estimated my CP60 from a variety of races/tests as about 220.
I raced Donner oly at 200 and ran on the edge (90%). I raced Big Kahuna at Pnorm-192 (87%) and ran on the edge (i.e. ran o.k. but close to imploding and losing a lot of time - maybe overall the fastest strategy with regards to bike/run combined time but definitely a painful way to race…). I did some 2x20 sets in the low 200 range at 7000 feet. My Pnorm=156 at Silverman puts me about 70% (which a lot of people say is low for an IM…).
I can look back at my data and see what % of the time I was <=12 mph to give you an idea of the percent of time “climbing” - but it seems like it would be a lot…I ride very steady watts - I try to avoid spikes as they really hurt my race so I doubt I had more than a few % over half IM watts and almost none near CP60. If you can tolerate some higher spikes on the bike - it would really help your time. I’ll try and check my data and report back.
Dave
So if 70% is the recommendation, then low 170s is about right. If 70% is climbing though, I could probably be closer to 190 on the climbs and hit that average. Although I assume that should be a NP average rather than my true average. The problem being, of course, that I won’t know my NP during the race.
Sorry it took me a couple days but here is my data wrto speed:
6-8 mph: 9.2%
8-10mph: 14.1%
10-12mph: 14%
12-14 mph: 11.7%
14-16 mph: 10.5%
16-18 mph: 6.2%
18-20,20-22,22-24,24-46: all about 4-5%
Watts:
120-140: 10.9%
140-160:22.5%
160-180: 31.5%
180-200: 13%
200-220: 3.1
Over 220: <1%
I was surprised at the amount of time I spent in the 180-200 range…
avg watts = 149. Norm=158. Ratio = 1.06.
I HAD to average 250 watts for 1 minute on one of those steep little climbs on the bike path - OUCH.
Good luck, Hope it helps,
Dave
Just got back from a 80 mile base ride on the Silverman course. Did not get way back into the course since I was already at 18 miles passing the T1. Have in the past though been up and over towards Echo Bay.
First, the road is in excellent condition. It has been recently re-tarred along the Lake Shore section so rolling ressistance is great. There however is one really bad section of around 200 meters just past the Vegas Wash bridge, just as you start that 1/2 mile 6% climb. Not a problem going up but be careful on the way back down when your brain might be a bit “fogged.” This is a section that has been scraped yet has not been repaved.
Dave is right. There is nothing flat on this course. It is not a rolling course. I would call it an Alligator profile course. Constant short 4-6-8% climbs. Over and over. Relentless. Today was tough with 15-25 mph north winds. Weather on Sunday should be great as the current low pressure moves east leaving behind cooler and more stable conditions. If I was racing, I would climb easy at high cadence, then “recover” on the downhills in a big gear, then steady-state the in-betweens with perfect form. I would say it is imperative not to come into T2 completely blown to pieces. If anything, if in doubt, gear down one cog and go easier rather than harder. Also dress appropriately. It will not be tropic like.
Good luck to all. I will be vollunteering.
On another note, I will be surprised if Tyler goes under 4:50:00. There is a reason why Dave Scott (who rode the course last year) said it is the hardest bike course he has ever done. It is relentless.
Conrad
Tough call on the pro’s time. I think the fastest time last year was 5:40? The guy who did that is nowhere near a pro cyclist, let alone one of the best in the world, and then ran a respectable marathon, so I don’t think 4:50 is out of the question.
So what did you think? How did your plan (watts) work out?
Times looked quite a bit slower than last year due to the weather.
Pretty clear that a team of single sport elites could easily go sub 8 hours - esp. if the weather was nice - 42-4:25-2:20 < 7:30 on a good weather day seems very doable. I think a great team could break 7 on a fast course.
Dave