'How to make a decision'

The Coffee Shop
1

My friend and I were discussing people we know who find it difficult to make a decision. Let me make this very clear: we were NOT in any way speaking badly of these people (they just happened to be men, btw) – we were VERY curious about the forms of indecision they have. We simply don’t get it.

Example: she knows a guy who can’t make decisions from very small decisions to larger ones. It took this gentleman 10 years of knowing that his bed mattress was old and broken (and it hurt his back), to getting a new one - and he was really angry at himself for not getting one sooner. And he’s depressed driving a terrible old car which can’t go over 50 mph - has no radio or maybe A/C - and he’s been looking online for a car he wants but can’t make up his mind. He makes good money also - enough to comfortably buy any car under $30k. He’s been looking for TWO YEARS for a car.

We know other men who do the same thing - won’t move towards quality decisions even when they have enough money to do so. So of course we wonder what psychologically keeps them back. YES, we figure they’ve “been burned before”, blah blah blah… but to be honest, what keeps someone from buying a bed when he’s getting hurt from the old one? Or gets depressed & unhappy driving his current broken car for YEARS when he has enough money for a new one?

My friend and I are honestly perplexed. We know this is ‘fear’, but we can’t figure out “what kind of fear” or if there is a way to encourage these people to make a decision --which pulls them from their frustration into ‘new life’. She and I don’t have this fear.

Can anyone help us understand what would make someone - especially different MEN-- have fear of making decisions like this?

2

are these men married? my wife keeps me from getting that new F150. :smiley:

3

with the men in question, i don’t know what makes them indecisive. but, it would be fair to say that their indecision makes them ineffective to at least some extent (if they are suffering health or safety because of indecisiveness).

this indecisiveness stems from something else; i wonder if they know.
but for the purpose of answering your question about fear immediately what comes to mind is: fear of taking charge fear of getting into trouble (with someone or something) if they make a bad decision fear of hurting someone’s feelings if they make a decision rather than someone else being allowed to make it fear of change/fear of risk (ie, they know the car they have now, if they get a new one–or a used one–then there could just be the same troubles, or worse ones down the line, etc. anything “new” has a risk and presents an unknown that is intimidating) inability to commit to things (ie, if someone buys a new car they are on the hook for a payment, and that is scary because maybe deep down this person hates their job and would like to quit. even though this person has thought about quitting for years and has not done so yet, if there is a car payment, that ruins any opportunity to be free of the job–even though that person will never actually quit, they at least want to be free of all committments so they can quit if they chose to) lack of self value (ie, this mattress is old and broken, it hurts me, but a new mattress costs money. so, i’ll just not spend the money because “i don’t deserve any better”). no belief in their self to actually make a good decision (lack of confidence) a lucid personality that has no desire for any thing (ie, would just prefer to exist in a state of neutral that is unchanging and unchallenging and let the world go on around them–they are meditative in the mind and aren’t even connected to wordly things). introspective or analytical state of mind; prefer to just think in their head. it is not uncommon for these personalities to compare and analyze products or topic(cars/mattress/whatever) for a long time before actually doing anything. they are so obsessed with making the best decision, that actually no decision ever gets made. procrastinate. if something is ignored, maybe it will work out and go away on it’s own without me having to do anything (ie, without me having to take any risk). hording/cheap. spending money is very uncomfortable, moreso than sleeping on the floor/broken mattress, or having to hitchhike 5 miles because the car broke down. some people are just cheap and tight; and that can be a generational thing or influenced from financials trauma growing up (growing up broke, without anything, etc, and deep down is afraid to spend any money). i have friends in this catagorey, and from what i see is very controlling behavior.

it is also hard for me to relate to people who cannot make decisions. i planned my wedding in 4 days–i didn’t shop, i just made decisions; and that’s how i operate with most things. i have become more patient over the years, but still prefer to make effective decisions in a very short amount of time. indecisiveness is horrible for me, as much as making a decision is for the people who hate to make them.

kitty

4

Either all that, or the guy just liked his bed the way it was.

:slight_smile:

5

My friend and I are honestly perplexed. We know this is ‘fear’, but we can’t figure out “what kind of fear” or if there is a way to encourage these people to make a decision --which pulls them from their frustration into ‘new life’. She and I don’t have this fear.

How do you know this is fear? Have you asked them? Seems to me if you asked them you would have the answer to your question.

That being said I can think of a whole plethora of reason’s outside of “Fear” that would cause someone to not make the decisions you described.

I had an old 77 Nova that was pretty much a piece of crap and yes at times I hated it and my GF at the time, now my wife, felt I should get something else. She REALLY hated it. I didn’t for a long time despite alot of problems. Point is I was not “Afraid” of getting a new vehicle, I like the piece of shit. Even though I hated a lot about it I was comfortable with it. Still to this day sometimes I wish I had it.

As a side note I don’t think this is a fear or male/female thing but a personality thing. Some people think decisions should be made quickly and decisively while others feel dwelling on a decision is a better option. In both cases this can be taken to extreme.

~Matt

6

Fear could certainly be part of it. But there could be other forces at work too. I am convinced that some people need to have obstacles in their life. Sort of like having built in excuses for why things aren’t going well for them. These are usually depressive people.

There are also the sort of people that get paralyzed by choices. Take the car guy. He knows he needs a new car. But there are hundreds of cars out there to choose from. So he starts researching. In my experience, this is where I can get bogged down. I tend to be very methodical about researching things, especially when I am trying to find a good deal. I have found that I need to filter certain things out right away and narrow stuff down on a big scale. For instance, if I was buying a car, I might say that it has to be a Ford or a Saturn, it has to be a sedan, and under $35,000. And go from there. The really odd thing about me is that the bigger the decision the easier it is for me to make. The inconsequential things like what I’m going to eat for dinner tonight tend to really bog me down. I can be a real nightmare at a restaurant. I’ll narrow it down pretty quickly to 4 things, then I’ll exclude 2 of those, but to get to what I’m finally going to order usually happens about the time the waitress is taking my order.

Bernie

7

there’s a good line from a Rush song, “if you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.”

I find it difficult to make a decision. The reason is simple: I’m always afriad I’ll have made the wrong choice. I think that’s why I tend to make decisions spontaneously: I don’t have to stress out about it. I just read the rest of the thread - “paralyzed by choice,” that would be me. Lots of options → anxiety and stress.

8

kittycat,

That is a really good list you made up. I would imagine in your line of work you often see people who fit into one or several of these categories. I’m quite certain that you would be most annoyed with me at a restaurant. But at the same time, my wife and I planned our wedding in what couldn’t have been more than 4 days. The only hiccup was the photographer we hired had died, but we rolled with it.

Bernie

9

I find it difficult to make a decision. The reason is simple: I’m always afriad I’ll have made the wrong choice. I think that’s why I tend to make decisions spontaneously: I don’t have to stress out about it. I just read the rest of the thread - “paralyzed by choice,” that would be me. Lots of options → anxiety and stress.

But here is the funny thing. There really are no “wrong” choices. At least not that many. Very few things we do have any permanancy at all. Some things are harder to change or at least cost more to change, but the fact is that it is still possible to change. For instance, look at QRgirl and her recent decision that she had to make about her floors. She could have stained them or left them natural. It is a big decision because finishing floors is a fairly expensive (time, money, hassle) project. But it is not one that can’t be redone. Do you see?

The only things that can’t be undone are the things that we do. If I choose to go for a long run today instead of a short run, I have chosen to do that. I can’t go back and undo that run. Now I have to live with the consequences (I’m sore, dehydrated, dinner isn’t ready on time). Hopefully the next time I have the same choice, I will make better decisions (bring water with me, have a plan for dinner) beforehand or I will make the choice to just run short.

When I was 21, I dropped out of college and pursued my firefighting/EMS career. There were a lot of people that told me that it was the “wrong” decision. It might have been, I don’t know. 15 years later, I’m back in college studying something completely different than what I was studying before. Is the fact that I am “back at school” proof that my decision to leave was wrong, or is the fact that I am studying something different proof that it was right?

I guess the “rightness” or “wrongness” of a decision can only be judged when compared to a standard, and then looked at from a point of view.

Bernie

10

KC,

Everyone had really interesting answers, but your list was quite fascinating! Wow!

I too don’t delay in many decisions unless it is completely out of my hands. I picked a wedding dress in 1 hr, for example…

If I ever delay in something it’s because I don’t like my options, NOT that I have too many options. I am like you - I try to make effective decisions while weighing the options, even when I also weigh the option of NOT making a decision!

Great answers!

11

TC, the way you feel is actually not uncommon. today’s consumer market makes it especially difficult for people to make choices.

Barry Schwartz talks these dynamics of abundance of choice in consumerism in his book Paradox of Choice.

sometimes there are so many choices, people make a choice to “choose nothing”, or they feel a sense of extreme anxiety by the decision making process in and of itself; so any decision they’ve made they feel unhappy with it regardless of how nice a thing it is(because “maybe there was something better”).

as an example, i once had a friend who was miserable over his choice of what Porshce to buy. once he made the decision, even though the car he bought was amazing, he experienced dis-satisfaction because “perhaps he should have choosen something different”. eventually he sold the Porsche so he could justify getting “something different” and was then miserable over that decision as well. (consequently, this guy drove me nuts, we are no longer friends.)

it is entirely justified to say that having such abundance in choice can negatively impact our satisfaction. if you think about it, these negative consequences of abundance in choice are revealed in our everyday lives; people have short attention span, abundance of material goods, need for excessive stimulation, they are self focused on what “they want”, etc. yes, what i’m talking about is linked directly to consumerism–but that is a primary arena for choice, as reflected in FC’s example with 2 men delaying on buying a car and a mattress.

anyway, working with people in “making a decision” is fascinating to me and is something i’ve had to deal with my entire career. it is my belief that the way a person makes a decision reveals so much about them, rather they are risk-oriented, adventuress, creative, analytical, thrifty, arrogant, reserved, protective, strategic, etc.

12

kittycat hit the nail on the head.

for the way human beings are wired, the (historically) recent enormous over-abundance of options in wealthy segments of the developed world truly overwhelms most people, some so much so that they freeze up.

13

and now there is choice for those who have little money–abundance of choice is for everyone (in most developed countries); no longer just for the wealthy. we see the consequences of this in America (the consequences i mentioned earlier with materialism, consumerism, attention spans, etc).

the truth is that choice now is more of a hassle than it used to be. used to be you wanted a car–you go down the street and get one at the dealer (maybe there was only 1 or 2 in the town). but now the entire world is more accessable, we have a global economy, there simply is more choice.

even “life choices” have more abundance; so much so that i find most people are not sure in “what they want”, and therefore rather than making decisions (because they don’t know what they want), they allow situations to decide for them.

the difficulty or problem with this, is that somewhere down the line it is not uncommon for people to be middle aged and think “what am i doing here?!” as “here” is a place that they never fully intended, yet there they are, and it becomes a life crisis (in career, family, marriage, financially, whatever).

when someone is really happy–genuinely pleased with their life overall–this tells me they have made good choices. it sounds basic, but living a “choiceful life” is easier said than done.

14

and now there is choice for those who have little money
yeah, you got a point, today you don’t have to wealthy to go to a grocery store and get a choice of 60 friggin’ types of just toothpaste …

15

My wife is the world’s worst decision maker. If we go to a restaurant wth hotdogs and burgers on the menu it will take her a half hour to make a decision and then she’ll call the waiter back 3 times to change her order and then she’ll end up eating my meal instead of her own.

That of course is all dependent upon wether she can decide if she is hungry or not…I asled her yesterday if she wanted some lunch I was making a sandwich. She said…hmmmm, I dunno if I’m hungry or not, I might be later, ummmm can you make me half a sandwich now and half in an hour or so???

I dunno why we pay for our cable package because she can never decide what to watch and the TV is permanently on the Discovery Channel.

16

oh my god, do not even get me started on toothpaste!

it is just goop in a tube, why the hell does there have to be so many choices?

(sorry, but that is one thing i find maddening. damn P&G, dammit to hell i say!)

17

hording/cheap. spending money is very uncomfortable, moreso than sleeping on the floor/broken mattress, or having to hitchhike 5 miles because the car broke down. some people are just cheap and tight; and that can be a generational thing or influenced from financials trauma growing up (growing up broke, without anything, etc, and deep down is afraid to spend any money). i have friends in this catagorey, and from what i see is very controlling behavior.

kitty

“Spending money is very uncomfortable” - that’s me. Big time. I get a head ache (no kiddin’) going into the store for almost any purchase. I check the budgets, talk to the wife, double check, then go, and sometimes agonize over what to buy based on price. My brother and I grew up with parents who were always short on cash, stretching every buck, we weren’t poor, but sure weren’t well off. I’d say mid-low income. Fast forward 30 years - my brother and I are polar opposites - i’m the way i am noted above, my brother couldn’t stop spending money, right into banruptcy. I make fairly decent money, but things are tight at the end of the month.

I’m not controlling, no more so than any one else. So what’s the fix for this? I round back to the same answer - get a better job.

Thanks,
Scott

18

Scott, even a better job may not resolve the problem, i have high earning friends who are the same way…some of that fear isn not really about money. (could also include for example, fear of stressing marriage and family, putting kids in bad situation where they are negatively impacted socially, loosing status, etc.).

so, while a better job might help you on your income, it may not actually resolve some of the fear, and consequential struggle with making decisions (and having to spend money).

to be honest, i feel there is power in knowing what you’re fearful about, as once it is identified you can then apply logic to the illogic of the fear (ie, you can begin to calm yourself by realizing that if you spend 50 bucks at the grocery store it’s not going to bankrupt or ruin your family).

you are not alone in this fear. my father was similar, as he was a WWII veteran and remembered the Depression. The Depression imparted a fear of spending/fear of loss in him, but also genuine appreciation of things we/he did have.

19

Maybe they just seek attention. By delaying a decision they get all types of attention and focus. Everyone else is frustrated by them not make a decision, but they are just happy with the attention they get. May not be anything to do with fear but pleasure. I can’t decide. :wink:

20

I am the exact opposite of these men. I can make a decision pretty quickly most of the time. There will be situation where I want to take my time and think about it, but most of the time, I don’t like it when people are being indecisive.