One bad thing that a lot of people new to flip turns tend to do is that they try to do too much with their arms. What should happen is that you whip your arms around to the direction you want to be going once you come off the wall, and they just kind of drift until you can get them into a streamlined position.
I would disagree with this description. I think that what should happen is that you should leave your arms pointing to the wall behind you as you take your last pulls, turn your hands palms down, and anchor them in space by pushing towards the bottom of the pool as you rotate to hit the wall. That way, your arms are pointing exactly where you want them as you come off the wall. No whipping involved, no drifting, no sculling. Very quiet.
There was a butterflier back 4 or 5 olympics ago…I think his name was stewart. He was famous for underwater kicking the vast majority of his race. He was a world record holder i believe. Not real sure on that…he was very fast.
The one I remember most clearly was David Berkhoff of ‘Berkhoff Blastoff’ fame who was pretty much responsible for FINA changing the rules to limit underwaters to 15M off the walls.
You’re both kind of saying the same thing, it’s just how you get there that there’s a discrepancy.
Ken - you pull both arms back prior to flipping and leave them where they were while flipping - after pushing down.
Jill - you use them as part of the initiation of the flipping motion but use core muscles to actually flip, therefore arms are slack and moving above head to streamline during that part, yes?
Either way - you accomplish the same goal, it’s just whether you use any of the intertia from your arms or not. I was taught to lead into the turn with one arm extended and the other down at my side, in a sense closing the gap and using both of your methods…
Did that make sense? I think you’re basically saying the same thing.
Sounds good to me.
Good video. Thanks.
The ones I had seen are just video of someone doing flip turns. No description or instructions. This is much better.
Am I the only person who finds flip turns easier if a 90 degree rotation is thrown in before the foot plant? Every time I try to push off on my back, I get horribly disoriented. Yet pushing off from my side feels perfectly natural.
Yeah, maybe not totally 90* on my side, but certainly closer to that than flat on my back. Also my feet are placed unevenly with respect to the plane of my hips (R up, L down, rotating to my left side) so that the push-off naturally aids in the body rotation twisting back to normal.
Many people have learned to do it that way, but doing that twist before push off does delay the push off slightly. There is no performance penalty to ‘corkscrewing’ during the streamline to do the full 180 degrees of rotation.
You probably don’t race backstroke, but if you did coming off the wall upside down is crucial.
What you’re talking about can feel more “more natural” but as jyeager correctly points out, it is slower and swimmers train not to do it this way. Does it matter for a swimmer training for triathlons where there are no turns? Not really.
Something I don’t think anyone has mentioned is your head. As you come into the wall and take your last stroke your head should come down simultaneously with your final arm stroke. Your head should come down sharply (chin to chest) and this in effect pulls your spine into the turn and initiates a tight tuck (a tight tuck makes it easier to flip and it also makes you flip more quickly). If you arm strokes first and both arms are by your side before you bring your head down then obviously you are losing speed / momentum.
Bilateral breathing helps develop an even stroke and people train that way when possible even if they breath every 2 strokes for max efforts >100m.
Breathing off the wall. Ideally you shouldn’t breath the first 2 strokes and you should dolphin kick away from the wall. It gets you under/out from the wash you created coming in and if you’re good at it (as FLA Jill pointed out), it’s faster. Watch Phelps - he’s the best ever and there is a lot of daylight to second.
Um, arms?
The correct thing to do with your arms is this following: on your approach, you do the pull through. Do a big stroke with arm 1 and leave your hand by your crotch/side/hip, do the flip by pulling through arm 2. You have now flipped onto your back and your hands are now in position around head level. (I usually let my elbows droop a little during the turn so that I can get some arm extension off the wall.) So you hands are in position for a push off without any wasted effort. This is the proper hand and arm placement.
I hope this is understandable. I don’t have an underwater camera to film it.
Lance, I’ve been told that part about not breathing off the wall also but is that just a training thing? I have noticed that in the highest levels of competition, at the longer distances everyone is now breathing on the first stroke. Also, they breath every 2 arm strokes now instead of every 3. It just makes sense in an aerobic performance that you need to maximize your oxygen intake.
And breaking out after the flags doesn’t apply to sprints does it? You need to break out at precisely that point in which your streamline speed has come down to your swim pace, which for a 25 second 50m swimmer is pretty much immediately.
Thanks.
Breakout is by feel more than anything else. You have to feel where your pushoff momentum stops and when it’s the right time to pop out of the water and swim. You will absolutely, NEVER EVER on sprints or anything else, break out before the flags. You need to at least be able to push off that far.
Breathing is a different story. In race or speed situations, you will breathe more. As you point out, there isn’t a lot of logic to trying not to breathe on a long distance swim. But you need to practice holding your breath as best you can and it will help you to take 2-3 strokes at least before breathing. I know it’s a pain in the ass and I hate doing it, too, but it’s very good for you. When you do something race speed then I suggest that you swim exactly as you would in a race. Since we are talking pools versus open water here, it’s kind of hard for me to tell you if you should really worry about your breathing off the walls. But to err on the side of canonical swimming dogma, take a few strokes. It will improve your technique and your lung capacity.
Swimmers always joke that killing brain cells will make you a better swimmer!
You definitely want to get at least one stroke in before breathing, even on a distance swim.
Arms… too often I see novice swimmers flailing their arms out to the side trying to “spin” their way into a somersault. Your arms should end up pointing more or less sraight back, parallel to the surface at the end of the stroke, and remain in that position as your torso rotates around under them on the flip. Then, you use your arms to “pull” your torso back upwards in line with the rest of your body as you push off (the arms then should already be in position to extend straight ahead without having to pull them back in from the sides first). If you look at a good swimmer do it all at once, the arms end up barely moving at all from the end of the stroke to the push-off extension. If you’re having to flail the arms to complete the flip, then you need to work on a smoother flipping motion…
…here, you shouldn’t need to think of launching your legs up and over; rather, the flip itself should be a natural rotation of driving your head down and allowing the curl of your back/legs to automatically pivot around your center of mass. Your legs then should be rotating so your feet are coming around towards the wall close to perpendicular for the push-off, and not travelling downward parallel to the wall before executing the push. I also allow one knee/leg to curl a little lower than the other, sort of “bicyclish” so that when I push off, my feet aren’t both completely level with each other; this helps “screw” me off the wall for a smoother transition into the regular face-down position.
This is a great explanation. I don’t agree with the corkscrewing idea–it is more efficient to push off on the back and then pull yourself to the freestyle position while performing a strong dolphin or flutter kick. I personally get a lot more out of these kicks when I’m on my back or side. Still for the purposes of most people on this forum it will be a success if they get the flipping part right, feet ending up shoulder width apart.
In reality, I push off on my back, kick to my side and almost front, and then take a big pull to break out of the water.
You’re both kind of saying the same thing, it’s just how you get there that there’s a discrepancy.
Ken - you pull both arms back prior to flipping and leave them where they were while flipping - after pushing down.
Jill - you use them as part of the initiation of the flipping motion but use core muscles to actually flip, therefore arms are slack and moving above head to streamline during that part, yes?
Either way - you accomplish the same goal, it’s just whether you use any of the intertia from your arms or not. I was taught to lead into the turn with one arm extended and the other down at my side, in a sense closing the gap and using both of your methods…
Did that make sense? I think you’re basically saying the same thing.
Position-wise they are saying the same thing. But KH is right about pulling through. Your flip turn power comes from your pull & your abdominal flexing.
Am I the only person who finds flip turns easier if a 90 degree rotation is thrown in before the foot plant? Every time I try to push off on my back, I get horribly disoriented. Yet pushing off from my side feels perfectly natural.
- Easier =/= correct.
What you’re talking about can feel more “more natural” but as jyeager correctly points out, it is slower and swimmers train not to do it this way. Does it matter for a swimmer training for triathlons where there are no turns? Not really.
Something I don’t think anyone has mentioned is your head. As you come into the wall and take your last stroke your head should come down simultaneously with your final arm stroke. Your head should come down sharply (chin to chest) and this in effect pulls your spine into the turn and initiates a tight tuck (a tight tuck makes it easier to flip and it also makes you flip more quickly). If you arm strokes first and both arms are by your side before you bring your head down then obviously you are losing speed / momentum.
Bilateral breathing helps develop an even stroke and people train that way when possible even if they breath every 2 strokes for max efforts >100m.
Breathing off the wall. Ideally you shouldn’t breath the first 2 strokes and you should dolphin kick away from the wall. It gets you under/out from the wash you created coming in and if you’re good at it (as FLA Jill pointed out), it’s faster. Watch Phelps - he’s the best ever and there is a lot of daylight to second.
Totally agree with you.