How slow do I have to be to cut people off without getting shoved out of the way?

Triathlon Forum
1

Yes, this is a revival of the Fireman thread where so many anamous yet opinionated people had no problem telling him what a dick he is. I’ll admit, the first time I watched the video it looked like he just out right shoved the guy for no good reason. He did look kind of like a dick doing it, but mainly because he was wearing sunglasses, had a serious look on his face, and had some muscles. He looked like he was out to cause some trouble.

But then I watched the video a few more times. Right before the finish the man in blue cut off the fireman’s friend and then started backing into his path while stopping, right before the finish. I thought back to situations where something similar has occured to me in the past. I get pretty pissed when someone cuts me off. I’ve thrown elbows. I’ve shoved people to the in field. I’ve thrown high forearms to their upper back…and I’ve had it all happen to me as well.

Funny…no one has ever called me a dick for it. Do you know why? Because I got cut off, and at least in my years as a distance runner and in the circles I run in, if you cut someone off, you expect to receive contact and know that you deserve it when you do.

Oh, I’m sure I’ll get reamed for this and be told what an awful guy I must be…and believe me, I do use a modicum of common sense. I once flew around the corner of a building at 5:00 pace only to have a 100 lb female runner coming the other way cut me off. Believe me, despite battling neck and neck for second place, I leapt out of the way as she screamed.

Nevertheless, the question stands. How slow do you have to be to be allowed to cut people off and be in the right when you get shoved out of the way?

Watch the video again. The guy in blue cuts in front of the first guy in red, spins sideways, stops, and starts to back into the crippled fireman. Explain to me why he shouldn’t get shoved out of the way?..keep in mind, we are talking about getting stepped on, kicked, spiked, or having elbows thrown. He got pushed…and you’ll notice, it didn;t seem to bother him too much.

20 seconds in

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1431564019?bclid=9525747001&bctid=9550128001

2

Rationalize all you want, it’s never ok to shove another competitor, this isn’t hockey. You have every right to protect yourself defensively, but a “shove” is offensive and there is now place for it in endurance sports. Somebody else being a dick doesn’t give you the right to be a dick back.

Thom

3

I dunno it happens all the time and its just easier to run around them then trying to put them on the ground.

4

Looks to me like the guy in red was both a jerk AND a hypocrite. Right after he shoves a guy out of the way he has the nerve to stop and do pushups RIGHT ON THE FINISH LINE!!??

The appropriate response for the guy in blue would have been to run right down the guys back! :wink:

Seriously, a total a&%@le. If you are going to get all pushy about keeping the finish area clear, how about doing it yourself.

5

http://fc01.deviantart.com/fs6/i/2005/064/c/0/Beating_A_Dead_Horse_by_livius.gif
.

6

OK, so maybe, just maybe, there is some small justification for him shoving the guy. Just for arguments sake, let’s say there is.

Still a jerk move to have an entourage blocking the finish line so you can do pushups with no regard for any other runner. Were it just the push, maybe he gets the benefit of the doubt. But he pushed a guy out of the way so he could grandstand. And with no regard for the finish of any other runner in the race.

7

Rationalize all you want, it’s never ok to shove another competitor, this isn’t hockey.

Thom, at what level have you competed in distance running? You must hate watching pro runners. They are ALL dicks by your standards.

8

that guy does a disservice to survivors/overcomers in particular and marathons in general. Marathons are not that hard and he’s not the only guy with a story.

appears to be a dick move, but then again maybe the guy in blue was annoying him for 20 miles, we’ll never know from the tape. Like others have said, the push-ups were over the top.

9

He shoves a guy in front of him so that he could STOP(!) and make a spectacle of himself on the finish line while his group blocks the finish line for everyone else. Hell, forget THEIR finishes, they can run around. Maybe the people trying to finish the race behind him should have shoved him out of the way. The guy he pushed wasn’t even in his way, he was in the way of the photo op he wanted.

10

Still a jerk move to have an entourage blocking the finish line so you can do pushups with no regard for any other runner. Were it just the push, maybe he gets the benefit of the doubt. But he pushed a guy out of the way so he could grandstand. And with no regard for the finish of any other runner in the race.

I agree with you there. However, people were on his case about the shove. Look at Thom’s comment above. Never? If a guy cuts you off…let me rephrase that…if a guy ILLEGALY cuts you off, you are obligated to let him do it? You are no longer entitled to the two strides in front of you?

I mean seriously…we are talking about pushing someone out of the way who shouldn’t be in your way in the first place. I’m just wondering if there’s different rules for the MOP and BOP than there are for the FOP.

11

The guy he pushed wasn’t even in his way, he was in the way of the photo op he wanted.

Watch the video again. He cut right in front of his friend, and started backing into him as he stopped dead before the finish. Had that been a pack of the guys I normally run with, there’s any number of things that could have happened to him.

12

Cut me some slack…its a slow morning and I’m sick of politics. ; ^ )

13

Looks to me like the guy in red was both a jerk AND a hypocrite. Right after he shoves a guy out of the way he has the nerve to stop and do pushups RIGHT ON THE FINISH LINE!!??

The appropriate response for the guy in blue would have been to run right down the guys back! :wink:

Seriously, a total a&%@le. If you are going to get all pushy about keeping the finish area clear, how about doing it yourself.
Totally agree.

14

The guy he pushed wasn’t even in his way, he was in the way of the photo op he wanted.

Watch the video again. He cut right in front of his friend, and started backing into him as he stopped dead before the finish. Had that been a pack of the guys I normally run with, there’s any number of things that could have happened to him.

BS. Maybe you should watch the video again without your Matt-colored glasses. The guy he pushes was not backing into him.

And I love your line "Had that been a pack of the guys I normally run with, there’s any number of things that could have happened to him. "

Ooooooh, tough guy. So what would you and your “pack of guys” have done to the tool who stopped on the finish line and did pushups?

15

Watch the video again. He cut right in front of his friend, and started backing into him as he stopped dead before the finish.

Watch his friend, that strikes me as an appropriate response. His friend put out both hands to avoid a collision and guided himself past the guy.

I’ve never raced at a high level but in the coverage I’ve seen, I’ve never seen someone reach past a competitor to shove the next guy over.

Would it have been appropriate for someone to come along and shove him out of his push-up stance because he was in there way?

Thom

16

I am not sure this is really comparable to race situations. Neither of these guys are racing and instead are enjoying the glory of finishing. If guys are racing one would expect a bit more contact at a tight finish without being labled a jerk (the recent Hy-Vee race). The guy in the blue weaves and slows to bask in the glory of finishing the race and gets shoved by the guy in red for being in his way. Then the guy in red does essentially the same thing - clogs things up the finish line to bask in the glory of finishing by doing pushups.

By the guy in reds standards the finishers behind him would have been justified in kicking him for being in the way at the finish line. If the guy in red had not done essentially the same thing - gotten in others way - I suspect the reaction would not have been so severe. I also suspect the guy in red would have felt a bit different about such contact if the guy in blue had then kicked him for laying down at the finish line.

17

Jostling for position in a pack is one thing (especially in a XC race or on the track) but shoving a guy from behind so that you can drop to the ground and do push-ups while your entourage makes sure that you have plenty of room is another. I said it back when the fireman thread was originally posted and I’ll say it again - it’s a dick move and is completely inexcuseable on his part or anyone else’s who intentionally shoves another competitor like that, regardless of their pace.

18

http://i30.tinypic.com/wvu4nn.jpg

Keep in mind 1st that the direction of the course is not down but diagonally to the right (look at the wall behind them). Before this shot the runner in blue was to the left of the guy to Matt’s left. In the last few seconds he ran right in front of that guy, turned, and stopped. I think at least we can agree that it is indisputable that HE was cut off. As he stands there blocking the finish, he starts backing toward Matt…not alot…and maybe he would have completely cut him off, maybe not. Nevertheless, you notice the guy to Matt’s right staring right at him. As the shove occurs, you would also notice the guy on Matt’s left put his hand on the guy’s back at the same time Matt does.

Worst case scenarion, Matt pushes the guy out of his friends way right after his friend gets cut off.

And I love your line "Had that been a pack of the guys I normally run with, there’s any number of things that could have happened to him. "

Ooooooh, tough guy. So what would you and your “pack of guys” have done to the tool who stopped on the finish line and did pushups?

I don’t think any of us are tough guys. My “pack” usually ranges from about 125lbs to 160lbs. Last I checked, people aren’t usually too scared of distance runners.

What I’m hearing on here are a bunch of holier than thou judgmental ST’ers who can’t wait to jump at the chance to rip someone apart on the internet. I’m hearing some above stating that, hey, maybe this wasn’t such a big deal, but they didn’t like the pushups. I agree. I don’t think people should be blocking the finish for any reason. My point is specifically on people ripping him apart for the shove. I think the shove was completely reasonable. The guy cut off his friend, blocked the finish line, and appeared like he might be moving to cut him off as well.

As for the pushups, more than likely we’d just run around him. However, lets say three of us are sprinting to the finish and the guy in the middle can’t avoid him…then he probably gets hurdled and possibly stepped on…which is one of the reasons why you shouldn’t do pushups at the finish line.

Of course, we aren’t talking about any competetive finish here. My point is, if a guy cuts you off, you shove him out of the way. The person cutting you off is occuping the space that YOU have the right to.

19

He wasn’t in that guy’s way. He was in his friends way so you might have an argument if his friend shoved him. That was no check to keep your balance when running at high speed and close quarters it was just a rude jerk move. On top of that the finishing mat is a block wide. This isn’t some cross country meet where the shoot narrows to only let one person through and your competing for points on a team. It’s not that kind of event.

20

Yes, it’s different at the FOP and the BOP. We aren’t talking about pros. We are not even talking about competing for a $3 plastic trophy. We are not talking about self defense.

There is never an excuse to shove another runner in amateur competition. Go around. It’s not like the speed precluded (gasp!) pausing… which Matt did anyways.

I would not extrapolate that Matt is always a jerk from this one move, but it’s not like his actions elsewhere keep this from being a jerk move. Personal ethics isn’t like a bank account where good stuff gets you enough credits to burn on being a jerk elsewhere.