First flat of the season was Wed, after work, less than a mile from the office. As I looked at the tube, I began wondering:
How many patches is too many patches?
Do you have a personal best/most?
Am I a cheap bastard for even wondering how far I can take a tube? (there’s pride in that statement!)
I can understand wanting some smooth riding patchless virgins in your race wheels. I’m talking about your daily road-beaters.
-chris
IMO you should patch to get home, finish the ride, then get a new tube… Of course I work at a shop, so tubes are THE perk of the job.
I don’t trust half of the tubes out there, not to mention the ones that are patched. Then there are the people doing the patching (not referring to you personally). People will come into the shop wanting us to patch their tires, I just put a new tube in. It’s $6 for a flat fix + $4 tube. I charge them $10 for making me patch a tube and pissing me off, so it breaks even.
If you are confident with your patching ability, and have no worries, then go ahead. It shouldn’t be a problem in the short term. More than one and I’d think about switching it out.
I’m a shop guy too and I say one patch is OK for a couple weeks if its small but it is one more place for the tube to fail eventually.
A new tube is cheap insurance.
From stltricoach, "If you are confident with your patching ability, and have no worries, then go ahead. It shouldn’t be a problem in the short term. More than one and I’d think about switching it out. "
What is the logic in that? If one patch is O.K. what goes wrong with the second, or third for that matter? And why do you think it requires a high level of skill to patch a tube? Find the hole, sand the area, apply glue, let dry, apply patch, wait a few hours before using. Training and competing in triathlon requires many advanced skills so I don’t see how patching a tube is beyond the ability triathletes. Given the relative cost of a new tube vs. buying a box of 100 Rema patches and a bottle of rubber cement, I’m going to patch tubes until the valve seat fails or I get a hole on top of a patch. I’ve got better things to spend money on than tubes.
And in response to the last two posts. Since I’ve started repairing tubes in batches and letting them sit at least overnight before using, I’ve never had a patch fail.
Big difference between training tubes and tires and racing tubes
and tires. My race set-up is ala Dan Emfield; the best that I
have and only for racing. Training, I patch, and often (also
use a slime liner for both training and racing). The time loss fixing
a flat in a race is definitely cancelled out by carrying a little extra
rotational weight in the wheels and NOT getting a flat.
I am also a cheapo.I have tubes with 8-10 patches on them.Whenever I flat I replace the tube with a new one.When I get home I patch the flat tube then pump it up and hang the tube on my garage wall.The next day I check the tube to see if it still holds air.If it is flat or appears to have lost some air I pump it up ,hold it under water look for bubbles and repair it.Then repeat the pump up process.If it can’t be repaired on does not hold air pitch it.I have 3-4 repaired tubes on the wall pumped up.That way you can see which tubes hold air better.When I have a flat I put a new tube in.At home I take the new tube out and put it back in my seatpack.I take a tube off the wall and put it in the tire.Next I repair the flat tube and hang it on the wall.I check my tire pressure before every long ride.If I lose significant air pressure between rides I repeat the water process.When I start putting patches over patches is when I throw them out.I ALWAYS CARRY A NEW TUBE IN MY SEATPACK.
Like Tom wrote, it’s one more thing that could possibly fail on you in the future. I try and stay away from as many possible problems as I can.
I do not think patching a tire is rocket science, or even elementary math, but that said, I’ve worked in a shop long enough to see people butcher simple patches. I don’t assume anyone can do anything to a bike anymore.
More power to you if you can do it right, and it has not caused you any problems. You seem to pay more attention than 99% of people with your process and storage. It seems like you must get alot of flats for you to have to patch a tube several times?
I can only remember a handful of flats, mostly mountain biking, but maybe I’m lucky?
In a previous post, the author suggests the following:
while riding, fix a flat with a patch
upon returning, pitch the repaired tube, replace with a fresh tube.
I think it would be better to:
ride with a spare tube, versus a patch kit
replace a punctured tube with a repaired, verified tube
repair the punctured tube upon returning home, carry it when riding.
The second approach is less wasteful, and you are less likely to suffer a puncture and have to depend on a fresh patch to get you home.
I freqently ride with 3 tubes of varying degrees of wear. None leak, but usually one or two have numerous patches.
Sometimes I encounter a SOL cyclist: no tube. On these occasions, I give them my ratty (but functional) third tube, with the understanding that they will incorporate the same practice.
i don’t get why people skimp in this area. Patches are great if, after you get a flat, you install your spare, and that gets a flat on the way home, you can then use the patches to get home.
People spend assloads of money on nice wheels and good tires, and then skimp out on the most important and relatively inexpensive part of the cycling equation. Not to mention the safety dependendancy that is inherent with a thin rubber tube upon which you are resting your well being.
I usually carry both a patch kit and a spare tube. If I just get a thorn or a small cut I can just pull away a small section of tire off the rim, pull the section of tube out and throw a patch on without even taking the wheel off the bike. I’ll only use the tube if I can’t patch the existing one. Once I get home, though, that tube is a goner and a new one goes in.
"I don’t get why people skimp in this area. Patches are great if, after you get a flat, you install your spare, and that gets a flat on the way home, you can then use the patches to get home.
People spend assloads of money on nice wheels and good tires, and then skimp out on the most important and relatively inexpensive part of the cycling equation. Not to mention the safety dependendancy that is inherent with a thin rubber tube upon which you are resting your well being. "
What you say may be true if you believe that a patched tube is inferior to a new one. However, except for the minute weight difference, I believe a patched tube is every bit as good as a new one, so the question then is why would one throw away a perfectly functional patched tube for what is only a cosmetic blemish.
Also, the rec.bicycles FAQ explains why you shouldn’t use a tube immediately after patching if avoidable. http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/8b.1.html
When I flat, I replace with a new tube. If I flat (knock on wood) a 2nd time on the same ride I patch up the first flat tube and off I go. Other than that, I never have put much more thought into it. I always have a new spare tube in the beginning of each ride.
jIM
Also, the rec.bicycles FAQ explains why you shouldn’t use a tube immediately after patching if avoidable. http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/8b.1.html
This assumes you’re using a glue patch. I really prefer the Park patches that you just peel and stick, just like a sticker. You’re off and running in seconds, and there’s no messy glue to deal with. Much lighter and smaller to carry, too. In fact, I just roll the little case in the middle of the tube and then strap it to my Xlab.
eventually, air will find it’s way under the patch, cuasing it to bubble, and creating a week spot in the tube.
People here are describing tubes with as many as 8-10 patches. I replace my tubes every year if i have not yet flatted them, i also ride more than most people here, and around a glass littered campus town. If you are getting this many flats you are doing something wrong.
I don’t need a rec bicycles faq to tell me how to mantian my bike, i spend most of my free time mantaining other peoples bikes, building wheels, and messing around with fiber glass and different glues.
It seems like all the wrenches on this forum, atleast one of whom is far more qualified than me, have posted that they are against patches as an everday fix for tires, but i digress, you are right, patch away.
“I don’t need a rec bicycles faq to tell me how to mantian my bike, i spend most of my free time mantaining other peoples bikes, building wheels, and messing around with fiber glass and different glues.”
Sorry, I didn’t realize you were the only one reading this board. I thought there might be someone out there who might benefit from this information. Again, my mistake, sorry.
“People here are describing tubes with as many as 8-10 patches. I replace my tubes every year if i have not yet flatted them, i also ride more than most people here, and around a glass littered campus town. If you are getting this many flats you are doing something wrong.”
A) How do you know how far I ride? B) How do you know how many flats I get? c) Goatheads
“It seems like all the wrenches on this forum, at least one of whom is far more qualified than me, have posted that they are against patches as an everday fix for tires, but i digress, you are right, patch away.”
First, I don’t think we’ve heard from all the “wrenches” on this subject. Second, none of the ones who have posted and said they are against patches have given a reason for this point of view.
“A) How do you know how far I ride? B) How do you know how many flats I get? c) Goatheads”
A) on my current schedule, i will ride a little over 25,000 miles this year. while there are people on this forum who ride more than that, (and you may very well be one of them), i doubt people who ride that much need to come to triathlon forum for tube advice.
B) don’t know, don’t care. you have my opinion (as well as that of others) on patching tubes. If you don’t like, then patch your tubes, it doesn’t effect me one way or the other, why are you wasting time arguing on this?
C) WTF?, i guess you have a sense of humor, or mabe i am missing something, but i always enjoy random interjections. If that is not a random interjection and i am just oblivious to something, then my customary response spawned from my stated ignorance is “screw you too.”
As for the wrenches on this forum, the ones who give 2 shits about this have probably all posted and so far as i saw, have given there reasoning.
now folks,
I was aiming for some humor when I started this thread. It’s for those of us who see some sooo-sexy spinergy’s in the shop window and quietly think. “Raman for lunch for 7 weeks, no renting DVD’s, and four trips to sell plasma and those babies are gonna be mine!”
Of course I’ve been saying that for years, and I still don’t have a designated set of race wheels, but if you’re a true junkie you’ve done the math.
Me: I keep a virgin under the seat. when I get home I patch my flat, and change it back out. The next morning, if it’s still up to pressure by ride-time - it’s ok. The unpatched tire goes back under the seat. I want a good one in reserve.
I was imagining a polka-dot-with-patches tube, and thought it was worth a post.
-chris
I’m not against patching, just wouldn’t ride on one myself unless I had too. Just for the basic reason that it is one more thing that could possibly falter on a ride. It is already a punctured tube, and patches are not 100% failproof fixes. A new tube is a 100% fix to the problem.
The patches are glued, heated, etc… That seal is a potential problem area. The air is still coming out of the hole, and now it has hundreds of tiny spots to attack on that sealed circle. The hole in the tube will probably continue to grow due to the forces the tube comes under in riding situations. Thus more air flow trying to breach the seal. It’s basic diffusion. Air wants to go somewhere else, especially at 90+ PSI.
Just looking at patched makes me think not good thoughts. So I go the less stress way. If you can ride on patches with no stress, then do it, I don’t care.
I’ve seem people come in the shop with multiple patches and insist they work just as good. Fine. But why the hell is someone getting 8-10 flats on the same tube??? That’s crazy. I’ve gone entire seasons without a flat, and I live in a metropolitan area with crappy roads that are salted in the winter. We also apparently alot of beer bottle drinkers who miss the sewer when they toss them.
IMO, I think tubes with alot of patches could also just be too old. Like Ben said, I’ll change tubes if I haven’t used them in a while. Look at what happens to older tires that are in subprime storage conditions. The same thing happens to tubes. Most new tubes come with some talc or powder on them to keep them dry in shipping conditions. Why risk it? Of all the things to go wrong, a $4 piece?
On another topic… Not to be an ass, but if someone can’t afford a $4 tube, then maybe they should ride less and work more?
If you think patching a tube is inferior try this.The next time you throw out a tube that has been patched, try to pull the patch off the tube.It doesn’t come off very easy and usually will tear the tube before it comes loose.That said I believe that I read in somewhere(Velonews?) that a patch is the strongest point on a repaired tube.I have installed a new tube and have it leak.When I pulled it off I found a small pin hole in the tube.The tube tore when I “played” with the hole.Another time I had a tube split on a seam.So new tubes aren’t 100 percent safe either.I have raced crits with tubes that have 6-8 patches on them with no worries.A tube don’t last forever.I find that after2-3 years use that the valve stem will tear during inflation.Last year I had one flat.(maybe because I switched to Hutchinson tires)Those of you who poo poo the idea of patching a tire have the right to your opinion.Please don’t look down your nose at me cause I patch or think I am more prone to tire failure because I ride on patched tires.I have rode for 10 years with patched tubes and have yet to have a failure.Those of you who ride only with a new tube ,that is fine more power to you just do me a favor the next time you flat hang the tube on a tree or bush near the road.When one of us patchers pass by we will see the tube and pick it up.We will take it home to patch it.That will put us 6 dollars closer to buying our dream bike cause we don’t have to buy a new tube!!!
I don’t like to take chances. When I flat I throw away the entire wheel and replace it with the Zipp 404 that I carry with me on every ride. If that one flats, I throw away the entire bike.