How often do pros get split updates?

Triathlon Forum
1

I hate to start another Lance thread, but it seems as though his strategy was to try to get a 4 or 5 minute lead off the bike on the main contenders (except Lieto). He seemed comfortable riding with Lieto chasing the other guy who rode off the front but then DNF’ed the run.

I’m assuming that if Lance was only up a minute or two on the pack, he would have pushed harder on the bike. Would he have known the gap to the pack? I’ve seen the videos from Kona where there’s a guy on a scooter with a whiteboard, but don’t know how often they get this info in other races (if at all). Lance seems to have executed perfectly–pushing the bike just hard enough to drop most people and blow up anyone who stayed with him, but not so vain as to cruise ahead to a first-place bike split and blow himself up.

2

Not to go off on my own little tangent, but I think that getting splits for anyone racing is one of the stupidest things our sport has. If you want to know how far behind you are someone in front of you, run or bike your ass off to see for yourself. If want want to know how far behind someone is, turn around. And if you can’t see them, keep running your ass off for fear they are coming up behind you.
Seriously, the races would be a tonne more interesting if nobody knew where anybody else was during the race. At least in my opinion, but I am no FOPer or Pro so I don’t know how they feel about it.
M~

3

I can’t speak to Lance’s updates but my significant other is an IM pro and it’s an interesting thing to attend races with her. There is a community of “supporters” that have gotten to know each other at these events. The supporters are typically spread out throughout the course and know enough to give accurate time splits and placements. For example, I know my lady got splits from 5 different people on the bike at IMWI, which was key for her and her strategy. I was there and was giving splits to at least 3 others too.

Also, in races where she is in podium contention, the amount of information coming from fans is overwhelming. I know it’s appreciated but sometimes people are off with their times, so often she has to just push regardless of what information is coming in.

4

, so often she has to just push regardless of what information is coming in.

Which is exactly how it should be (IMO).

5

Also, in races where she is in podium contention, the amount of information coming from fans is overwhelming. I know it’s appreciated but sometimes people are off with their times, so often she has to just push regardless of what information is coming in.

I would think it’s a huge change going from TdF team radios with constant updates to scattered updates of dubious accuracy.

6

I respectfully disagree with you. The game is completely different when you are racing for placement. Also, she does so many a year, she can’t really afford to trash herself if there is not benefit to doing so. It matters not if she puts up a 9:30 or a 9:50, what matters is her placement. If that is not in jeopardy then why bury yourself and risk an extended recovery?

7

Not to go off on my own little tangent, but I think that getting splits for anyone racing is one of the stupidest things our sport has. If you want to know how far behind you are someone in front of you, run or bike your ass off to see for yourself. If want want to know how far behind someone is, turn around. And if you can’t see them, keep running your ass off for fear they are coming up behind you.
Seriously, the races would be a tonne more interesting if nobody knew where anybody else was during the race. At least in my opinion, but I am no FOPer or Pro so I don’t know how they feel about it.
M~

I’m assuming you’ve never been in a race where you’re racing the actual competitors? In that scenario it’s extremely useful.

You come out of the swim and don’t see anyone, but you hear you’re 15 second back. You ride hard for 2-3 miles to get back into the group. Conversely, you hear you’re a minute back, well then you’re not making that up anytime soon, so ride an even race and hope to pull them back later on.

Lets say you get off the bike in 4th. Race pays 5 deep. You can’t see anyone behind or in front of you. How hard you run depends on how many guys are in front of you, and how close they are, and similarly how close the guys behind you are. It’s all about risk management. Knowing where you are gives you valuable pacing information.

8

It depends on the race. Someone like Lance is going to have a posse feeding him all the info he needs. Other guys probably not so much.

I was at IMLP watching this past summer, and was giving splits to guys around mile 70 or 80. For nearly everyone, that was the first info they’d gotten.

9

There seems to be a lot more information provided to the chasers than to the chased. To get info to #1, you’d have to wait for him to pass, wait for #2 and time the difference, then leapfrog back ahead to #1 to provide the update.

10

Not to go off on my own little tangent, but I think that getting splits for anyone racing is one of the stupidest things our sport has. If you want to know how far behind you are someone in front of you, run or bike your ass off to see for yourself. If want want to know how far behind someone is, turn around. And if you can’t see them, keep running your ass off for fear they are coming up behind you.
Seriously, the races would be a tonne more interesting if nobody knew where anybody else was during the race. At least in my opinion, but I am no FOPer or Pro so I don’t know how they feel about it.
M~

I’m assuming you’ve never been in a race where you’re racing the actual competitors? In that scenario it’s extremely useful.

You come out of the swim and don’t see anyone, but you hear you’re 15 second back. You ride hard for 2-3 miles to get back into the group. Conversely, you hear you’re a minute back, well then you’re not making that up anytime soon, so ride an even race and hope to pull them back later on.

Lets say you get off the bike in 4th. Race pays 5 deep. You can’t see anyone behind or in front of you. How hard you run depends on how many guys are in front of you, and how close they are, and similarly how close the guys behind you are. It’s all about risk management. Knowing where you are gives you valuable pacing information.

how hard you run (again in my opinion) should be based on where you think are in a race and who you think is ahead of you. It’s a single person race. Not a team race. So you should be doing all the work for yourself. If you think there are people up the road, push a little harder. And if the guys up the road think there is someone behind them pushing a little harder, they may push a little harder as well. Anything could happen! I just think things would be far more interesting (from a spectators stand point).

11

Not to go off on my own little tangent, but I think that getting splits for anyone racing is one of the stupidest things our sport has. If you want to know how far behind you are someone in front of you, run or bike your ass off to see for yourself. If want want to know how far behind someone is, turn around. And if you can’t see them, keep running your ass off for fear they are coming up behind you.
Seriously, the races would be a tonne more interesting if nobody knew where anybody else was during the race. At least in my opinion, but I am no FOPer or Pro so I don’t know how they feel about it.
M~

I’m assuming you’ve never been in a race where you’re racing the actual competitors? In that scenario it’s extremely useful.

You come out of the swim and don’t see anyone, but you hear you’re 15 second back. You ride hard for 2-3 miles to get back into the group. Conversely, you hear you’re a minute back, well then you’re not making that up anytime soon, so ride an even race and hope to pull them back later on.

Lets say you get off the bike in 4th. Race pays 5 deep. You can’t see anyone behind or in front of you. How hard you run depends on how many guys are in front of you, and how close they are, and similarly how close the guys behind you are. It’s all about risk management. Knowing where you are gives you valuable pacing information.

how hard you run (again in my opinion) should be based on where you think are in a race and who you think is ahead of you. It’s a single person race. Not a team race. So you should be doing all the work for yourself. If you think there are people up the road, push a little harder. And if the guys up the road think there is someone behind them pushing a little harder, they may push a little harder as well. Anything could happen! I just think things would be far more interesting (from a spectators stand point).

At an elite/professional level, everyone’s already on the rivet, they’re already ‘pushing hard’. The scenario of the race determine the tactics, and splits are one piece of information that determines how you race. There’s infinite permutations of scenarios, but for example, if you’re running next to someone who you know you can outkick, but they’re a comparatively better runner, it would be dumb to push the pace and risk blowing up.

Furthermore, for professionals, who are racing multiple times per month, it’s advantageous not to go completely into the well if you don’t have to, so you can come back and train and race at a higher next the next week(s).

12

I disagree (politely). I think not getting any data would be like a basketball team playing a game without the scoreboard on. That score dictates a lot of what the team does and if they don’t know the score it makes it tough. There is a lot more strategy to the pro races than I ever imagined. I’d prefer to get the info for the same reasons as people already described…know whether to push a short effort to catch a group or whether to wait and be patient. Personally I like to know the info while racing. It’s reassuring to know people are coming back to you even when the race is spread out and you can’t see them. Just my own personal preference would be to know where people are at.

13

+1 on the tactics are more important than “motivation.” Reminds me of what Justin Tuck said just before the Super Bowl this year:

“To me, nothing that anyone says matters. If they talk about my momma and I play at a higher level of intensity, then shame on me. Nothing anyone says should elevate your football. It should already be elevated to its highest point.”

14

Information is power, period. If you’re racing, you should want as much accurate, pertinent, information as possible.

If you are “competing against yourself” or “giving it your best” then, no, it does not matter. There’s nothing wrong with that, and there’s nothing wrong with finishing in 16:59:59 to check a bucket list, lose weight, or raise money for charity. However, that’s not racing.

For those not racing to project how they think things should be on to those who are racing is wrong. It is no more fair than for the racers to make light of those doing the same event at a slower speed or for a different motivation.

Sure it might be a noble sentiment, but it breaks down quickly in the harsh light of the real world.

15

Depends on the race completely … IM its pretty important as you’re bridging the gap more cautiously. A lot can go wrong if you just race your ass off in the middle of the run to make up a 2 minute gap. However, in ITU/olympic races its pretty much irrelevant in my opinion. It’s balls to the wall all out. If the next guy is a minute ahead, you will either catch him or you won’t. The more pacing involved, the more important splits are and how they are strategically used. That being said, there is a huge mental component to splits that could either help or hurt you even in the shorter distance races.