How NO sees the fed help/Bush is officially a lame duck

I was able to catch a few reports this morning about why these levees have not been improved, at least in the last few years. It has more to do with how the NO levee commission has been appropriating funds then it has to do with any funding cuts at the federal level - that is just a smoke screen by those that are culpable.

The levee commission has reportedly recently spent over $200M on things like casinos, private planes, investing in pet projects for personal friends, etc. This has been reported on La. news for some time now.

It is the failure of the levees that has ruined this city - not winds and storm surge.

Sorry, I am getting too tired for an expansive reply

I understand that.

, but I started a thread a few days ago about the fact that Bush cut funding for area flood control projects

I saw that, and it was interesting.

I read the thread and it said that they’ve been talking about the levees for 4 decades. My initial thought was, "If it was such a high priority, why hasn’t anything been done in 40 years? And NOW the blame goes on Homeland Security for cuts in the last 2 years?

The levee improvement was so critical that they put off feasibility studies till 2006?

Seems like everyone knew this needed to be addressed, and people took the money and built other things that could/would attract tourists/money … like the Superdome, etc.

I guess this situation will make ALL the critics happy, b/c there seems to be enough blame to go around for everyone. I was just voicing opinions on how certain folks want all the blame to go in one direction … and I thought that was unfair. From your comments in a previous post, I got the feeling that you agreed with this?

It’s just like you to select only what you want to post, and then not even bother to cite the article, so it can be put in context. The quote you posted even said “it might not have changed the situation in downtown New Orleans.” That clearly leaves open the possibility that full funding may have effected the outcome.

The article you cited is below. Here’s another quote:

Similarly, the Army Corps requested $78 million for this fiscal year for projects that would improve draining and prevent flooding in New Orleans. The Bush administration’s budget provided $30 million for the projects, and Congress ultimately approved $36.5 million, according to Landrieu’s office.

“I’m not saying it wouldn’t still be flooded, but I do feel that if it had been totally funded, there would be less flooding than you have,” said Michael Parker, a former Republican Mississippi congressman who headed the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers from October 2001 until March 2002, when he was ousted after publicly criticizing a Bush administration proposal to cut the corps’ budget.

See, there are opinions on both sides of the issue. And I bet there’s more.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/chitribts/20050901/ts_chicagotrib/floodcontrolfundsshortofrequests

Flood-control funds short of requests

By Andrew Martin and Andrew Zajac Washington BureauThu Sep 1, 9:40 AM ET

Despite continuous warnings that a catastrophic hurricane could hit New Orleans, the Bush administration and Congress in recent years have repeatedly denied full funding for hurricane preparation and flood control.

That has delayed construction of levees around the city and stymied an ambitious project to improve drainage in New Orleans’ neighborhoods.

For instance, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers requested $27 million for this fiscal year to pay for hurricane-protection projects around Lake Pontchartrain. The Bush administration countered with $3.9 million, and Congress eventually provided $5.7 million, according to figures provided by the office of U.S. Sen. Mary Landrieu (news, bio, voting record) (D-La.).

Because of the shortfalls, which were caused in part by the rising costs of the war in Iraq, the corps delayed seven contracts that included enlarging the levees, according to corps documents.

Much of the devastation in New Orleans was caused by breaches in the levees, which sent water from Lake Pontchartrain pouring into the city. Since much of the city is below sea level, the levee walls acted like the walls of a bowl that filled until as much as 80 percent of the city was under water.

Similarly, the Army Corps requested $78 million for this fiscal year for projects that would improve draining and prevent flooding in New Orleans. The Bush administration’s budget provided $30 million for the projects, and Congress ultimately approved $36.5 million, according to Landrieu’s office.

“I’m not saying it wouldn’t still be flooded, but I do feel that if it had been totally funded, there would be less flooding than you have,” said Michael Parker, a former Republican Mississippi congressman who headed the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers from October 2001 until March 2002, when he was ousted after publicly criticizing a Bush administration proposal to cut the corps’ budget.

Lt. Gen. Carl Strock, the corps’ chief of engineers, said late Wednesday that the corps’ requests cited in Landrieu’s figures were the amount that would be needed to finish the work in a given year. But he said the corps, working with the administration, rarely requests the full amount in the budget.

“There are limited resources and there are huge demands on it,” he said. “Very rarely do we fund at full capability.”

Even if the projects had been funded at the highest amounts, Strock said it might not have changed the situation in downtown New Orleans. He said the levee near the 17th Street Canal, where one of the breaches occurred that emptied water into the city, was fully completed.

A corps plan to shore up the levees began in 1965 and was supposed to be finished in 10 years but remains incomplete. “They’ve never put enough money in to complete it,” Parker said. He said the corps’ budget has been regularly targeted by the White House because public works projects are perceived as pork and aren’t considered “sexy.”

“Go talk to the people who are suffering in New Orleans,” Parker said. “Ask them do they think it’s pork.”

Joseph Suhayda, an emeritus engineering professor at Louisiana State University who has worked for the Army Corps of Engineers, said the corps simply didn’t have enough money to build the levees as high as the designs called for.

“The fact that they weren’t that high was a result of lack of funding,” he said, noting that part of the levee at the 17th Street Canal–where one of the breaches occurred–was 4 feet lower than the rest. “I think they could have significantly reduced the impact if they had those projects funded. If you need to spend $20 million and you spend $4 or $5 million, something’s got to give.”

Officials for the Army Corps of Engineers declined to comment on the reasons for the underfunding.

Fred Caver, who retired in June as the corps’ deputy director of civil works, said there is always competition for funding and “you’re never going to get everything you want.”

But he said a reluctance to invest in unglamorous public works projects and especially heavy demands on the budget, from the war in Iraq and entitlement programs, have added to the difficulty in securing funding for corps projects.

Scott Milburn, a spokesman for the White House Office of Management and Budget, declined to comment about the specific questions regarding funding for hurricane-related projects in Louisiana. However, he said, “The president signed into law a $100 million increase for the corps for the current fiscal year compared to the previous year’s level.”

Historically, New Orleans has built bigger and more ambitious levees every time the city floods, Suhayda said.

“They would live with the conditions that they had until there was an event,” he said. The Great Mississippi Flood of 1927 prompted a major upgrade to the levees around New Orleans, he said. The levees were upgraded again to handle a Category 3 storm after Hurricane Betsy hit New Orleans in 1965.

In the years since then, local officials have warned that a catastrophic storm was inevitable and sought more funding to improve the area’s hurricane preparedness to handle larger storms. In July 2004, for instance, federal, state and local officials staged a simulation in which a “Hurricane Pam” slammed into New Orleans with 120 m.p.h. winds and created havoc that was eerily similar to that of Hurricane Katrina, including widespread building damage and death.

“Since 1995, we’ve been replaying these scenarios out in various degrees. . . . Unfortunately, our way for dealing with these disasters is after the fact,” Suhayda said.

J. David Rogers, chairman of the geological engineering department at the University of Missouri-Rolla, said politicians have refused to spend money to improve the levees to handle a Category 5 storm because of the low probability of such a storm occurring.

“The politicians were convinced that they had their 100-year event with Camille,” he said, referring to the Category 5 storm in 1969 that obliterated a large swath of the Gulf Coast. “The fact that we had a big event 20 years ago, or we dodged one last year, doesn’t mean it’s not going to happen tomorrow.”

While corps officials were trying to determine the cause of the levee breaches, they said they believed it was caused by water lapping over the top of the levees, which eroded the back side and eventually caused them to give way.

There are at least three major breaches of 200 to 300 feet long, corps officials said. Once the corps plugs the leaks, with huge bags of sand and gravel dropped by helicopters, it will begin repairing and replacing pumps in the city to remove the water.

Estimates of how long it will take to pump out the water varied from several weeks to several months, depending on which corps official was asked.

The Corps of Engineers has been working on two flood-control projects in New Orleans and is awaiting approval of a third, according to Caver, the former corps official.

One of these, the Lake Pontchartrain Hurricane Protection Project, begun in 1965, originally was slated to include a movable barrier on the eastern edge of the lake to block a tidal surge during a hurricane. Planners opted for a cheaper, less desirable alternative of building up levees to keep the lake from spilling into the city, Caver said.


ajmartin@tribune.com

azajac@tribune.com

Again, here is the article from which you apparently cut and pasted. Your quotes aren’t wrong, but you omitted the following paragraphs, which were between the third and fourth paragraphs of your post. You took the quotes out of context because the rest of the story tends to moderate what you did select. In essence, you are a liar.

Here are the quotes you deliberately ommitted; below is the article:

Mr. Naomi grew particularly frustrated this year as the Gulf Coast braced for what forecasters said would be an intense hurricane season and a nearly simultaneous $71 million cut was announced in the New Orleans district budget to guard against such storms.

He called the cut drastic in an article in New Orleans CityBusiness.

In an interview last night, Mr. Naomi said the cuts had made it impossible to complete contracts for vital upgrades that were part of the long-term plan to renovate the system.

This week, amid news of the widening breach in the 17th Street Canal, he realized that the decadeslong string of near misses had ended.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/01/national/nationalspecial/01levee.html?adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1125849725-9B1vrSCF+bGmeYgd4gmsWA

September 1, 2005 Intricate Flood Protection Long a Focus of Dispute By ANDREW C. REVKIN and CHRISTOPHER DREW

The 17th Street levee that gave way and led to the flooding of New Orleans was part of an intricate, aging system of barriers and pumps that was so chronically underfinanced that senior regional officials of the Army Corps of Engineers complained about it publicly for years.

Often leading the chorus was Alfred C. Naomi, a senior project manager for the corps and a 30-year veteran of efforts to waterproof a city built on slowly sinking mud, surrounded by water and periodically a target of great storms.

Mr. Naomi grew particularly frustrated this year as the Gulf Coast braced for what forecasters said would be an intense hurricane season and a nearly simultaneous $71 million cut was announced in the New Orleans district budget to guard against such storms.

He called the cut drastic in an article in New Orleans CityBusiness.

In an interview last night, Mr. Naomi said the cuts had made it impossible to complete contracts for vital upgrades that were part of the long-term plan to renovate the system.

This week, amid news of the widening breach in the 17th Street Canal, he realized that the decadeslong string of near misses had ended.

“A breach under these conditions was ultimately not surprising,” he said last night. “I had hoped that we had overdesigned it to a point that it would not fail. But you can overdesign only so much, and then a failure has to come.”

No one expected that weak spot to be on a canal that, if anything, had received more attention and shoring up than many other spots in the region. It did not have broad berms, but it did have strong concrete walls.

Shea Penland, director of the Pontchartrain Institute for Environmental Studies at the University of New Orleans, said that was particularly surprising because the break was “along a section that was just upgraded.”

“It did not have an earthen levee,” Dr. Penland said. “It had a vertical concrete wall several feel thick.”

Now the corps is scrambling. After failing to close a 300-foot break in the canal through which most of the floodwater entered the city, federal engineers decided last night to take the battle with Lake Pontchartrain to the lakefront.

Starting today, they will prepare to drive corrugated vertical steel plates, called sheet pile, into the mud near where the narrow canal meets the lake, sealing it off so that the big breach farther in can be more methodically attacked, Mr. Naomi said.

The decision was made after a day of fruitless efforts to figure how to drop concrete highway barriers or huge sandbags into the torrent. For the most part, the water between the lake and the filled bowl of the city leveled off as of last night, officials said.

Weaknesses in the levee system were foreshadowed in a report in May on the hurricane protection plan for the region and the budget gap.

The district headquarters said, “The current funding shortfalls in fiscal year 2005 and fiscal year 2006 will prevent the Corps from addressing these pressing needs.”

They also meant that there was far too little money to study thoroughly an upgrade of the protections from the existing standard, enough to hold back a hurricane at Category 3 on the five-step intensity scale, to a level to withstand floods and winds from a Category 5 storm.

Hurricane Katrina was on the high end of Category 4 and, despite the extreme flooding, is still seen by many hurricane experts as a near miss for New Orleans.

Since 2001, the Louisiana Congressional delegation had pushed for far more money for storm protection than the Bush administration has accepted. Now, Mr. Naomi said, all the quibbling over the storm budget, or even over full Category 5 protection, which would cost several billion dollars, seemed tragically absurd.

“It would take $2.5 billion to build a Category 5 protection system, and we’re talking about tens of billions in losses, all that lost productivity, and so many lost lives and injuries and personal trauma you’ll never get over,” Mr. Naomi said. “People will be scarred for life by this event.”

He said there were still no clear hints why the main breach in the flood barriers occurred along the 17th Street Canal, normally a conduit for vast streams of water pumped out of the perpetually waterlogged city each day and which did not take the main force of the waves roiling the lake. He said that a low spot marked on survey charts of the levees near the spot that ruptured was unrelated and that the depression was where a new bridge crossed the narrow canal near the lakefront.

Some experts studying flood prevention with the corps and other agencies speculated that any dip in the retaining levee or walls there might have allowed water to slop over and start the collapse.

Mr. Naomi said that as the power of the hurricane grew clear over the weekend, he and others who had worked to make the system as strong as it could be, given the design limits, could only hope that it would hold.

But, he said, he knew that the chances were high that the rising waters and crashing waves would find a fatal weak spot in the 350 miles of levees and walls.

As often occurs after a storm, Lake Pontchartrain is sloshing back and forth, sending pulses of water into the city and potentially complicating repairs, Dr. Penland said.

“It’s like you have a bowl of water and you shake it, and it sloshes back and forth,” he said, describing a phenomenon that geologists call a seiche (pronounced sesh). “Mississippi Sound and Pontchartrain are real prone to seiches when big storms come through. We are seeing the slosh. Water is being flushed through the gaps in the levees.”

He said scientists at the United States Geological Survey estimated that the sloshing would gradually diminish in a few days.

Until then, the city will be subject not just to normal variation in the lake, where water levels change about a foot between high and low tide, but also to the variations of the seiche. “You have not just the one-foot tide, you probably have three to four feet of water,” Dr. Penland said. “Once we get to an ordinary tidal regime, when it plays out, that will be our opportunity to close those breaks in the levees and start pumping.”

TT,

You’re right, that deterioration of the levees have been a long-known problem. But, in 1995, Congress authorized the Southeast Louisiana Urban Flood Control Project, or SELA to address the problems over a ten year period. Google that - THAT is the project that has been underfunded since 2003. It is a federal project - and over the past three years, Army Corp of Engineers officials and local officials have complained of the underfunding, and the likley cause of the underfunding - this administration’s War in Iraq and tax cuts.

Some on this site will never believe me, but despite my dislike for most of the Bush administration’s policies, I would love to be able to say that they did everything they could. But the simple facts are - they didn’t. Like in so many other areas, the Bush administration dropped the ball.

If the SELA project was completely funded and up-to-date, would Katrina still have resulted in mandatory evacuations and flooding in New Orleans? Yes. Could the damage and loss of lives been lessened? It’s very possible.

As stated in another thread I do not support allocation of such a great amount of funds to a project that is inherently deemed to succomb to the forces of nature.

The money is better spent towards projects that will be successful.

I have no faith whatsoever in mankind being able to build a structure or system that will hold back the forces of nature.

It’s easy for you and others to think that throwing money at the project will automatically bring success. Money that is better spent elsewhere.

As said countless times…

There is no way that man can build a system that will hold back the Mississippi River or Lake P. during a category 4/5 storm.

To think it can be done is short sighted and ignoranct.

The money could be better spent elsewhere.

Actually, I don’t disagree with you that it might not be the wisest use of money to try to defeat nature, or that large cities should be built in a bowl below sea level. But, the fact is, Congress, the Army Corp of Engineers, and local officials all thought it was a worthy and high priority.

Once you get past the first few paragraphs, that is a pretty good article you cite that trys to give the full context.

I have to admit that I get pissed when I hear Mary Landrieu whining about levee funding. Last I checked, she was a member of the Senate, and the President can’t flush the toilets in the Whitehouse unless Congress gives him the money to do it. If you or others want to complain that Congressional funding priorities are whacked as evidenced by the highway bill, you will find me in total agreement.

Congress, with the exception of the first few years of the Republican Congress starting in 1995 has been a disaster my entire life. Anyone who puts their life in the hands of Congress should expect consequences.

The major section that failed was a completely upgraded section. In a seperate post, I went out on a limb and guessed that had that section not failed, some other section would have and will fail once they try to bail out. We will see if I am right.

I have never seen any major governmental capital improvement follow any pattern other than to be approved with funding doled out over a period of years. Politicians do this on purpose, so they can posture as to be continually delivering the pork. If the funding is delivered up front, no one needs the politician that delivered it anymore.

New Orleans levee funding was SOP. The idea that people profess to be shocked, shocked would be amusing in other circumstances.

As this process gets unwrapped, it is looking like the worst initial problem was the evaporation of the New Orleans police force on day one of the disaster.

Of course they did…why wouldn’t they think it’s a high priority?

“the President can’t flush the toilets in the Whitehouse unless Congress gives him the money to do it.”


Yes, but the Presdient proposes the Budget, and often gets what he wants. Especially this President, since 2002, has had a rubber-stamp. I’m sure you’d agree - if Bush wanted to fund SELA, Congress would give it to him.

I know New Orleans didn’t get all the levee funding they wanted, but you will be pleased to know that the Feds will be finding $250,000,000 or so to build a bridge to nowhere in Alaska courtesy of the new highway bill.

As a conservative, I recognize that if you depend on the government, you will be bitterly disappointed sooner rather than later.

I just don’t agree. Take a look at the highway bill with 6,000 earmarked projects including the bridge to nowhere. If you think Bush, or any president, can control Congress, you are mistaken. The bill was still a budget buster.

Bush hasn’t vetoed a single bill in five years as president. There is no precedent for that. It is up to Landrieu and company to fight the good fight in committee to get the funding they want. I will wager she and others fought the good fight for dozens of boondoggles other than levee funding. Actions, consequences.

Regardless, no matter what funding had been provided over the last 10 years, things would likely not have been appreciablely different on the ground today.

I am as disgusted by the $250 M bridge to nowhere as you are. I am fiscally conservative, not in the Libertarian sense, but in the balance the budget sense. Unfortunately, neither my brand of fiscal conservatism nor the libertarian brand have any pull with today’s Republican party.

I have to agree with you there.

I am obviously old. I remember back when the Republican party was the party of smaller government. That stopped being the case in less than five years after they got control of the government.

If the damn Democrats would give them a little competition in this area, the story might be different. With that party getting more and more left wing wacko, the temptation to shift left toward more government spending to fill the vacuum and guarantee reelection is irresistible.