I compared a normal rider with one carrying an extra pound on each wheel (so the rider carrying the extra wheel weight also weighed 2 lbs more than the other rider). If you want to know the effect of the rotational weight as opposed to just normal weight, we’d want to compare two riders who’s total vehicle weight is the same, but one carries the extra weight on his wheels and the other carries it somewhere else.
Actually, here’s the result of a model I just ran comparing a rider with x weight wheels with a rider with x+.5kg wheels (about 1lb heavier per wheel): At the end of 100m Standard Rider is ahead by 0.01s and 0.12 m.
Okay so assuming your calc took every thing into account, at the end of a 50 lap 4 corner criterium, you would be 0.12 x 50 x 4 = 24 m behind the winner.
Except that the primary reason you might get heavier wheels is because the heavier wheel is more aerodynamic (say a deep dish or tri-spoke). In that case, you’d be the winner because you’d be ahead of him.
Here’s the model that compares only a difference in the weight location (so we’re isolating rotational weight):
Both Test rider and Rider 2 have the same vehicle weight. Test rider’s wheels weigh .5 kg more each than Rider 2’s wheels, but Rider 2’s vehicle weight is 1 pound heavier than Test rider (so their vehicle weights are the same, only the location of the weight is distributed differently):
At the end of 100 m Test Rider is ahead by 0.00 s and -6 -7.29 × 10 m.
That is what I call insignificant.
Why do some people have such a hard time believing that a lighter wheel is an advantage, period! If you can have an aero wheel that is also lightweight, it’s going to be faster. If you have heavy wheels that you like, that’s great…if some of us want lighter wheels because we think and feel that they’re faster, that’s also great. I’ve never used my bike or wheels in a wind tunnel or as a variable in a math equation and I never will! I ride them outside while on my bike and good, light wheels make a big difference for me. So, I don’t care if you calculate that there is only going to be 2 milliseconds difference if the wheel is a half pound lighter and you don’t think it’s “worth it” for the extra money. It makes me laugh when people on this forum say that aero is way more important than weight. I like to have both!
Since I am not even gonna bring up time again how much weight is significant going by feel? How many grams doe sit take before 2 similar style wheels feel different?What about for climbing or crit style riding? Thanks
I notice a huge difference between the training wheels and race wheels I use for doing a weekly crit with a small hill with maybe a 100ft elevation change. The uphill is a little longer and gentler and the downhill usually has a stiff headwind. There is only one 90 degree corner.
Training wheels: Ritchey pro aero with 165gm tires,dura-ace cassette and ti skewers-1050gm front, 1500gm rear
Race wheels: Zipp 404 with 215gm tubulars,dura-ace cassette and ti skewers-812gm front, 1115gm rear.
I think this is a pretty good comparison as I’m not using heavy, junky wheels and tires for training. They are the kind of wheels that a lot of people race on. So I wanted to make sure that any race wheels I got were going to be substantially better…enough that I would notice a definate difference instantly. So I think that the race wheels are both substantially better in both weight and aerodynamics that I notice a BIG difference. I don’t think there is much more that I can do except train harder!
I don’t understand why you’re still so focussed on wheel weight. Losing two pounds at your wheels is pretty much the same as losing two pounds in your bike frame or your waist line or anywhere else. You could answer your question yourself simply by going out, doing some accelerations (or whatever it is you want to test) and taking off a water bottle or two and doing it again. Now you know the difference between accelerating vehicles of different weight.
If you’re just after subjective and non-scientific opinions, or if you just want someone to tell you what you want to hear, then you probably can deduce your answer from the posts here. Otherwise, I’d head over to analyticcycling.com and do the homework for yourself, even though others have done much of it for you and posted it here already.
The Zipps are deep rimmed aero wheels, you should expect them to be faster irregardless of weight. I don’t think it’s a good comparison at all.
1000 grams but you will only notice the difference in the parking lot of the lbs when you buy the wheels.
greg
I think lighter wheels tend to make us feel faster, lighter, or as if we are closer to floating. That feeling’s positive effects on our thought process/brains (brain:body :: coil/distributor:motor) can not be measured by analyticcycling’s calculator, because calculators don’t account for emotions/sensations effects on our will. I know that if I tie a block to my frame I should still be able to put out X watts over Y amount of time, but I bet I could put out X+Z watts over Y amount of time without that block on my frame simply because it feels better, and makes my thought process more positive and I’m able to transmit more energy. So, while lighter wheels may be nothing more than a placebo effect, it’s still an effect, so I’ll take it.
FWIW I had a pair of Rolf Vigor’s (~1450grams) and I could tell they were much lighter while climbing/accelerating/holding high speeds (they were much more aero as well) than a pair of Mavic Open Pro’s (???grams). So, if you are just looking for the feeling, and your senses are fairly refined, I think you should easily be able to tell a 500 gram difference.
This is what I was looking for. So 500 grams is noticable. If I can put something on my bike that makes me feel and think I am faster then it might be worth it. When it comes time to race you cant get any faster training on race day so if you can get a mental edge then, whatever works.
I think your summary is right on the money. I want to take all of these advantages to the start line of a race, so I am sure equipment issues can’t be my excuse if my performance isn’t up to my expectations. And since riding is something I do for fun, I’ll do whatever it takes to make my bike (and therefore my riding) as enjoyable as possible, which is why I like to buy certain gear and equipment.
"FWIW I had a pair of Rolf Vigor’s (~1450grams) and I could tell they were much lighter while climbing/accelerating/holding high speeds (they were much more aero as well) than a pair of Mavic Open Pro’s (???grams). So, if you are just looking for the feeling, and your senses are fairly refined, I think you should easily be able to tell a 500 gram difference. "
The Princess and the Pea.
The difference you claim to feel is entirely due to your belief that you will feel something and any difference in aerodynamics. I don’t believe that you can detect a difference between two pairs of wheels that differ only by 500g. Even climbing an 8% grade, the difference is only .5% in time elapsed (that’s .3 seconds per minute). The difference at the end of a 100m acceleration is only .01 seconds.
I’m with you Ken. I have a pair of Rolf Vigor Primas. I rode fairly standard wheels approx 400g heavier until I switched. I wanted to feel a difference, but really the only difference was that they sound different and brake much poorer. Maybe it was because I was going so much faster. 
I’m sure someone would say it’s because the RIMS weren’t any/much lighter on the Rolfs, but rather the lower spoke count and flimsy hubs account for the weight diff, thus why I couldn’t feel it. Puh-leeeeze.