lawyer from new zealand here. i’m interested in how much lawyers can expect to earn over there and in what kinda role, how much experience etc.
ps i am too lazy to use capitals.
Too many variables. Area of expertise? Experience level? Education (top firms hire from top schools and pay a premium)? Locale?
Sorry about this, but I haven’t a clue to answer your question, but it does remind me of an old joke.
A young lawyer graduated from a prestigious law school and moved out west to a small town in Nebraska, becoming the one and only lawyer in town. That first year, the lawyer nearly starved to death.
Then, another newly graduated lawyer moved to the same town. The next year they both made a million dollars.
To be serious, the U.S. is a big place with widely different costs of living. East vs west, coast vs inland, big city vs small town all are factors in most jobs. I don’t even know what to say about branches of the law, corporate, financial, criminal, patent, international…
AmyCo, CTL aren’t you lawyers?
i’m an attorney in Houston Texas in private practice from day one graduating from law school. it depends on where you want to practice, how large a firm, type of law. what do you do now in NZ? experience?
well i currently work in employment only but have done a fair bit of family law. education wise, i went to nz’s ‘best’ law school, although that is a question that is hotly debated (it is probably a fallacy to ‘rate’ law schools within nz). in terms of students, it would be the most competitive law school…
i have 3.5 years or so experience. currently work for nz’s largest government department. deal with a certain class of complainant (social workers on the whole). the people making complaints often get wrapped up in a crusade for justice and lack insight. the leading stress case in nz involves my department.
Your biggest hurdle will be to try to find someone who speaks English here. 
Here’s an example. Buddy of mine, fresh out of law school (Alabama), 26yo, has been working for a large firm in Atlanta for a few months – he’s making very high 5 figures and expects to crest 6 figures very soon. So, if that’s for someone inexperienced and new to the profession… I can only imagine where it goes from there. (Sorry, I forget what type of law he deals with)
I don’t think I could ever be a mere cog in the wheel…
re working in a large firm.
You can’t practice in california without taking the california bar exam.
It’s ok if you practice federal law (i.e., federal income tax) exclusively. The state has relatively little jurisdiction over you then.
“I don’t think I could ever be a mere cog in the wheel…”
Good luck with that.
Like the others have said, salaries vary widely by location and type of practice.
Funny, I was just reading about Americans moving to New Zealand. Just curious, what’s the appeal for coming to the States?
As clm mentioned, you’ll need to take the bar in whatever state you practice. If you knew where you wanted to practice, we could give you a more accurate idea of what you could make.
You said you don’t want to be a “cog in the wheel,” which is understandable, but all lawyers are just “cogs in the wheel” to some extent. Especially someone who is low on the experience ladder.
Anyways, in a big firm in a major city, you’ll clear $100,000 your first year as a lawyer. I have no idea what to tell you for smaller markets.
Smaller firms usually don’t pay as much, but there are smaller firms who do quite well and pay competitively.
As everyone else has mentioned, there are a series of variables that will factor into it. On the other hand, firms are often eager to hire qualified lawyers from overseas markets. I don’t know if NZ is one of those countries that firms will leap at, but I know a lot of people from other countries who are quite successful as lawyers here in the US.
Rick
This is an interesting question…
What would a patent law specialist located in flyover country (oh, say, Kentucky) with 10+years of engineering experience behind him expect to start out at? Is it plausible to just hang out your own shingle right after the JD or wiser to join someone else’s firm?
This is an interesting question…
What would a patent law specialist located in flyover country (oh, say, Kentucky) with 10+years of engineering experience behind him expect to start out at? Is it plausible to just hang out your own shingle right after the JD or wiser to join someone else’s firm?
What kind of engineering? Are you a member of the PTO?
With the right experience, you could be in big demand. Of course, you would need to be or become a member of the bar of the state in which you work (which is easier in some places than others). We are looking for an IP attorney in Virginia (physics, computer and/or electrical engineering), and there are a number of other attorney, paraglegal and marketing positions open all across the firm if anyone is looking.
As for foreign attorneys, we have them regularly, but they are generally accommodation arrangements from clients in other countries, because if they are not licensed in NY, DC or CA (our main offices), then they cannot practice law. And no, at the firm I work with, having a federal court practice won’t get you off being a member of the bar of the state you are resident.
Electrical / computer hardware and firmware.
Never heard of the PTO…
Every time we file an application (just did my 12th, and 2 of them have been awarded), I think about sneaking off to law school and getting on the other side of the fence. One of the big Q’s is how long it would take to pay off the student loans and recoup my losses for the career change. I usually end up thinking I like being on the “inventor” side of the fence too much to leave it, though…
tough to say. big firms (200+ attys) in big cities start at $100,000+. mid-size firms in big city $70,000-$90,000 (varies greatly based upon the type of work by this size of firm since you have some top notch general firms as well as insurance firms which pay less), smaller firms $35,000-$40,000+. Goverment attys $35,000+. big firms in smaller cities (50+ attys) maybe $50,000 (higher if they also have offices in big city too so that salaries are more uniform though still less than their big city colleagues), smaller firms less than that.
Never heard of the PTO… <<
What??? The Patent & Trademark Office? Anyone doing patent prosecution here is also a member of the PTO.
In the IP area, they hire first on the educational background (Ph.D., M.S., etc.), then on the JD. Some of our patent agents get the PTO license first and work and go to law school at night.
clm
Ohhhh… that PTO…
Oh yes, I’m quite familiar with that PTO… I just didn’t know it was something one became a “member” of.
Interesting that you can work and get the law degree at night… so what exactly does a patent agent without a JD do? I’m afraid, for all my experience with the “inventing” side of things, I don’t know much about what happens once I hand it over to the lawyers except that they spend a bunch of time describing it in the right language and coming up with properly worded claims, then spend a bunch more time convincing the PTO to approve it… Oh, and there’s all that searching about for other patents that might infringe, chasing down other companies that are infringing, negotiating cross-licensing agreements, and such, I suppose…
so what exactly does a patent agent without a JD do? <<
Not sure. Not practice law, however you define that. (And, get paid less.)