Sorry I couldn’t come up with a better thread title…but here’s the thing…
I got to looking through the photo gallery from last week’s Virginia Duathlon and came across a photo of me full-side during a stretch where we were screaming down a good stretch of road. Unless you had a non-tri-bike there was no excuse for not being down in the aero position during this stretch…but as I scanned the gallery of riders…I was struck by all of the people on aero-bikes, with aero wheels…that probably agonized over the decision to buy in terms of trying to get aero…WHO ARE SITTING UP, THEREBY NEGATING ALL THAT $ THEY SPENT ON THEIR EQUIPMENT!
Check out this link and scan through the galleries at all of the folks doing this…
Keep in mind that I’m NOT talking about the run-for-fun folks on the comfort bikes, or those on standard road bikes…I also realize this is only one moment in time…but it still strikes me as a lot of folks giving up tons of time…
How many of you spend significant time out of the aero during a race, not counting sitting up for corners or braking situations? Every time you do, you are giving up time.
I see it all the time. Even in a stiff head wind. I suspect that much of it is due to poor bike fit. I’ts like Tom D. says, the best bike is the one that fits you. First priority should be getting a good fitting bike. Only after that should you look at aero stuff. Many people do it backwards.
Well, on the one hand, I’d say anyone that spends money on aero stuff is “wasting” it. Just like anyone that buys a bike to ride when a car is perfectly suited to drive down the road for 112 miles, or whatever.
Also, unless you are in it for a paycheck, most of us don’t really “NEED” to be more aero.
But, for those that have bought it, EVEN IF they aren’t in a good body position, there is still whatever benefit that aero gizmo brings to the table that is still doing it’s thing, regardless of body position. For example, aero wheels that shave 2-3% off of the total drag are still shaving 2-3% off the total drag whether you are sitting up or staying down low.
I’m just being slightly obtuse here. I know what you are saying is that it’s more important to be on a great fitting bike than it is to try and buy speed with gizmo’s. And I agree with you. It’s still just a hobby for the grand majority of us, so, it’s not really all that important in the grand scheme of things.
I was struck by all of the people on aero-bikes, with aero wheels…that probably agonized over the decision to buy in terms of trying to get aero…WHO ARE SITTING UP, THEREBY NEGATING ALL THAT $ THEY SPENT ON THEIR EQUIPMENT!
Like half the pros. Many of those bike positions (esp. the women) are so upright they might as well just ride a comfort bike. They’re sitting up higher on their aerobars than a Cat 1 cyclist sits when holding the brake hoods.
Yes, yes…these guys are still wicked fast. But does it make sense to do all that training and then give away 10-20% of your power through bad bike position decisions? As more people have been posting power numbers, we’re beginning to see clear evidence of the “aero tax” being paid. Two of people I know of both did Forster with power meters. One rode 5 hours at 170 watts and the other rode 4:56 at around 210. That should be a 15 minute gap in favor of the stronger guy.
I know of at least three people that rode at 20+ more watts than me at Ralphs, and biked 3-7 minutes slower.
People holding the base bars aren’t the only ones wasting power. I’m not going to be on the podium in any races, but I still like the fact that I get a 15-20 watt head start over 90% of the people I’m racing.
One of my favourite places to stand and watch a triathlon is the exit from T1 at any of the big IM races. You will see hundreds of high end super-aero and super light bikes, laden down with enough gear and doo-dads for a one week bike tour. About all that is missing is the panniers. Riders will also be wearing clothing that is acting like a parachute. Of course, then there is the whole ill-fitting bike phenomenon. It is clear that, many, many triathletes just don’t seem to get this. I very often cringe when I see these people passing because, they must have a very uncomfortable 112 mile ride coming up.
So indeed, why the non-stop talk abou aero this and aero that, when clearly when you actually see people in action, they throw all of this to the wind(pun intended)?
This is an excellent observation. You are right, I agree. I often see multisport athletes who are not well versed in tactics and racing skills. They don’t concentrate on riding a smooth, straight line. They don’t ride a tactically smart race by finding the safe position in the road that is most sheilded from the wind by buildings, trees or the crowd line, they don’t ride the racing line through corners (in compliance with yellow line rules of course).
One of the things doing some bicycle races and criteriums does teach you, if you are observant, is tactics, conservation, efficiency, cornering and other tehcnical skills. On some triathlon course those skills can amount to a substantial time savings, maybe a minute or more if it is a very technical 40 Km course.
Armstrong usually rides very well tactically in a time trial. He is right up against the crowd barrier shielded from the wind or tucked as close the the residual slipstream by camera or lead vehicles even though they are require to drive far up the road during a time trial. He knows to put himself on the right part of the road. He knows where to push the pace to get gains and use the terrain to his advantage and when to just turn the pedals and conserve. It is fascinating to watch once you begin to see the sublties.
You are right though. A guy will spend $1300 on a disk and $600 on aerobars but then ride out in the middle of the road on a cross-windy day, not cut the tangents on a 90 degree turn and not come into the transition area hot with a good cyclocross dismount.
Practicing skills on the bike is free and yields speed without extra effort. It is like the 5 time Tour de France rider Bernard Hinault said, “I prefer to do everything I can to stack the odds in my favor.”
If my memory is correct, those pics were taken on the straightway just out of transition… many people weren’t really underway yet, and hence, not down in the aero position yet
When talking to John Cobb the other day, he had told me that aero does matter at any speed. But I know exactly what you are saying about not racing tactically well, not having a good, comfortable aero position so that you can ride in it all day, all the aero crap in the world will make no difference.
I wonder if having a separate brake lever at the aero bars could make cornering better? Also, I have found that many people have their elbows too far in, making an extra pocket of air (instead of making a low pressure area around the front of your body) and sacrificing cornering ability, as well.
Many racers don’t know tactics becuase they never race in a group situation. In a crit, I always tried to get my guy into the front, but not totally in the front, as I wanted the wind break to conserve me and keep my rider fresh for the sprint. I would take my rider to the opposite side of the wind. Sometimes, I would have to use a bit of body english to get my guy there (and if he would persist in not letting me in that spot, sometimes a pump would go into a wheel- maybe not that race, but in another later down the road). This is where you learn everything about bike handling, wind cheating, and how to use your considerable skills from ice hockey in another area of life. And I learned these tactics from them being used on me.
Maybe some USAT events shoud require a bit of demonstrable experience in bike handling. Who knows?
“Maybe some USAT events shoud require a bit of demonstrable experience in bike handling. Who knows?”
From what I have seen it certainly would be helpful because the handling skills of your typical triathlete are . . . well . . . I’ll just get into trouble!
Great idea, but I think that it would ad another layer of complexity to an already complex sport.
Maybe another thread title might be penny wise and dollar foolish, pursuit of aero.
Certainly the bike that fits is a good start. Then there is the subject of power output and sustaining that power output. A poor fitting bike will compromise this to a great degree. Much more so than any other aero “goodies” can compensate for.
I find it amusing that many will opt for the “economy” fitting passing up the advanced fitting that usually costs more to save money. Little do they realize that these are the cheapest minutes they can buy in the pursuit of “aero” or speed.
How many participants just slap aero bars on their bike without any consideration for how that affects their power output and breathing?
The proper fit balances power output and sustaining that output, breathing and comfort. It is clear from the photos that many were seeking comfort or recovery from their “aero” positions.
Some must move up the learning curve the hard way. More proof that you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink.
It reminds me of my first ironman I did. I blew up 60 miles into the ride. My calves were cramping and the sensation was spreading throughout my legs. My bike setup was filled with thousands of dollars of after market aero stuff that I thought would make me faster. But because of a combination of lack of preparation, lack of experience, and poor hydration, I rode the rest of the way sitting straight up, clutching the elbow pads, trying to find a position where I wouldn’t cramp up. I felt really silly averaging 14.5 MPH over the last 50 miles on a completely tricked out aero ride.
In hindsight, I probably learned more from that experience than if I had breezed through the course without any problems.
I don’t think so. There are other pics from two cameras just at the transition…most of those pics are closer to what you observe. I’m pretty sure these pics from the link I posted were well out on the course. Most of the folks ARE in the aero position here. But the number that aren’t seemed significant to me, and seemed in keeping with my personal observations as I rode back past them going the other way. I’ll write tri-duo to confirm where these were taken…
“I find it amusing that many will opt for the “economy” fitting passing up the advanced fitting that usually costs more to save money.”
You know a store that offers LEVELS OF FITTING??? That is a travesty and a shyster way to make a buck, if you ask me. You either fit the bike or you don’t. I guess level 1 fitting is the old stand-over-the-top-tube method? How much do they charge for that “service”? What a crock. If you are going to charge for fittings…do them right. Otherwise don’t charge.
I don’t think stores should even sell tri bikes unless they have someone who can properly fit the rider. Riding on a poorly fitted tri bike (especially if you are a beginner) is an excruciating experiance I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemy. If all the person wants is tri geom, they can order pretty much anything they want over the net. The whole purpose of going to the bike shop and forking over the extra cash is so you can do it the right way the first time and get the maximum bang for the buck.
I agree with you, however comparing power numbers doesn’t mean much unless the two athletes are of identical size. I can produce a lot more power than some people, but I also have to overcome 195-200 pounds. If the guys you’re talking about are pretty much identical in size, then that is another story. Power to weight ratio would probably be a better means of comparison.
Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong. That has been know to happen from time to time
