I know the easy answer is with rest but if someone is clinically overtrained how is this diagnosed (blood work or something else) and treated? For the treatment would a doctor prescribe things considered “doping” (i.e. HGH or testosterone). I admit I know very little about any of this. I’m just curious how it is treated.
I know the easy answer is with rest but if someone is clinically overtrained how is this diagnosed (blood work or something else) and treated? For the treatment would a doctor prescribe things considered “doping” (i.e. HGH or testosterone). I admit I know very little about any of this. I’m just curious how it is treated.
There isn’t really a clinical test that says “You’re overtrained”. And, the prescription for it really is just cutting back on workload (Training). I think (stress think) that there is a theory that the relationship between testosterone and cortisol can indicate overtraining, but for that to even be effective you’d have to already know your baseline.
Generally, if your heart rate is elevated more than 5% above normal at rest or while training (or both) from your normal range, it’s an indicator of overtraining.
John
you take time off and let your body recover.
pretty simple treatment.
But for how long??? If overtraining is real (I think everyone agrees that it is) then there should be some medical benchmarks so that a doctor could know that you were indeed overtrained and could prescribe the proper dosage of rest. And since the reason you go to a doctor is to speed up recovery one would think that if this is a medical condition that a doctor could prescribe something to speed up your recovery. If you went to the doctor with the flu and the doc said to just rest sure you would probably get better with time. But it might take A LOT longer than necessary.
It seems like all of these athletes dope so that they can train longer and harder while avoiding overtraining. It would seem to suggest to me that these substances might be used medically to curb the effects of overtraining and get you back to yourself sooner than “just resting” does.
Point 1. Dopers are cheaters. No one likes a cheater.
Point 2. Your body needs rest to recover. Take this time to find to spend time with family, or if you can’t stand your family, find a new hobby like water colors or pottery.
Point 3. All of the so called doping products have their dangers and you are messing with your body chemistry if you take them.
Point 4. Train hard and then rest. Think of resting as a reward for your hard training. Intensity counts.
Point 5. No good doctor is going to think providing doping substances is a good idea when you can just recover.
“Dr. I have a headache from listening to loud music.” Do you think he is going to give you a prescription for that?
As said before “Stop IT!”
“Dr. I have a headache from listening to loud music.” Do you think he is going to give you a prescription for that?
If that headache is actually a blown ear drum then I think the doctor is going to prescribe something other than to just “stop it”. I honestly don’t know very much about doping. I would, however, assume that those things are developed for a medical reason. The black market for sport doping could never sustain or fund the research and development costs of those drugs. Clearly they have a medical intent.
I have seen people post on here that they were severely overtrained and it took them 3-6 months or more of rest to recover. In those extreme cases are you telling me that a doctor doesn’t have any other recommendation other than rest. That seems absurd. By the way, are you a doctor??? If not then I would say that you are probably not qualified to answer this question (nor am I). Your assumption that rest is the best and only answer for severe cases of overtraining just seems to fly in the face of the entire medical research establishment (which might actually be a good thing). Why invest in developing these drugs if they are only used by a few thousand elite cheating athletes.
There isn’t really a clinical test that says “You’re overtrained”
could you measure cortisol?
“Dr. I have a headache from listening to loud music.” Do you think he is going to give you a prescription for that?
If that headache is actually a blown ear drum then I think the doctor is going to prescribe something other than to just “stop it”. I honestly don’t know very much about doping. I would, however, assume that those things are developed for a medical reason. The black market for sport doping could never sustain or fund the research and development costs of those drugs. Clearly they have a medical intent.
I have seen people post on here that they were severely overtrained and it took them 3-6 months or more of rest to recover. In those extreme cases are you telling me that a doctor doesn’t have any other recommendation other than rest. That seems absurd. By the way, are you a doctor??? If not then I would say that you are probably not qualified to answer this question (nor am I). Your assumption that rest is the best and only answer for severe cases of overtraining just seems to fly in the face of the entire medical research establishment (which might actually be a good thing). Why invest in developing these drugs if they are only used by a few thousand elite cheating athletes.
If you want to ignore everyone that isn’t a doctor, why did you post on the forum?
Unless there is a medical reason for the tiredness, weakness, lack of recovery, no reputable doc is going to prescribe some kind of drug, performance enhancing or not for someone that should just take time off. That doesn’t mean you have to sit around, it means you just have to cut your training back. They will (or should) only prescribe something if there is some actual medical condition to fix. It’s hard to find a drug that cures “Too stupid to stop working out”.
And, the drugs were not developed to help “a few thousand cheating elites”. They were developed to aid in specific medical conditions where they were necessary, and disreputable docs and athletes started using them for purposes other than what they were intended for.
You’re going to get pretty much the same answer from almost anyone on here with any kind of training/coaching education and experience. Overtrained = get rest. But, you obviously don’t like that answer, so go find someone that will give you an answer that you want to hear.
John
I’m just curious what those drugs are intended to treat. I think I said in my original post that I don’t know much about doping. It just seems logical to think that those drugs could also help those who (in your words) were too stupid to stop training and are now severly overtrained. It seems like the fact that these drugs are abused unnecessarily that their medicinal benefits might be being ignored.
I’m just curious what those drugs are intended to treat. I think I said in my original post that I don’t know much about doping. It just seems logical to think that those drugs could also help those who (in your words) were too stupid to stop training and are now severly overtrained. It seems like the fact that these drugs are abused unnecessarily that their medicinal benefits might be being ignored.
You are in the wrong place with the wrong question and you still keep asking it.
If you want to learn about so called those drugs go check out the medical sites.
“Dr. I have a headache from listening to loud music.” Do you think he is going to give you a prescription for that?
If that headache is actually a blown ear drum then I think the doctor is going to prescribe something other than to just “stop it”. I honestly don’t know very much about doping. I would, however, assume that those things are developed for a medical reason. The black market for sport doping could never sustain or fund the research and development costs of those drugs. Clearly they have a medical intent.
I have seen people post on here that they were severely overtrained and it took them 3-6 months or more of rest to recover. In those extreme cases are you telling me that a doctor doesn’t have any other recommendation other than rest. That seems absurd. By the way, are you a doctor??? If not then I would say that you are probably not qualified to answer this question (nor am I). Your assumption that rest is the best and only answer for severe cases of overtraining just seems to fly in the face of the entire medical research establishment (which might actually be a good thing). Why invest in developing these drugs if they are only used by a few thousand elite cheating athletes.
I AM a doctor and I say, “REST”.
Those drugs were created to treat pathological deficiencies, like pituitary tumors or adrenal tumors (for growth hormone) or to replace hormones that were lost due to surgery (testosterone for testicular cancer or other steroids for adrenal cancers). They were not created to supplement people with normal levels.
EVERY drug has side effects. The probability and severity of those side effects must be weighed against the positive aspects of the drug. If something can be cured without medication, why risk the side effects? If you are overtrained, then rest… for however long it takes. What is the issue?
BTW, a ruptured eardrum is generally treated with… TIME and antibiotics. Occasionally they need surgery, but not usually.
i think making a distinction between overtraining and over reaching is important.
What are the symptoms of overtraining? could they be something else? If overtraining
symptoms are caused by low iron then that can be treated. If a medical professional
can’t figure out a deficiency then it probably is the workload and you just need rest.
Overtraining will have an underlying cause we could spend ages trying to determine what the
problem is or…just rest.
Do we still use the term overtraining. In my work we call it unexplained under performance syndrome.
Assuming that the under performance is due to training can be a little short sighted.
yes but it’s a useless test unless you know what your baseline rhythm is, and even then it is ridiculously difficult to interpret. Most endocrinologists don’t even bother to do them unless the patient is very “insistent”.
the specific test is the cortisol day curve.
It’s hard to find a drug that cures “Too stupid to stop working out”.
This should take care of the motivation to work out, plus give you a good case of the munchies, to boot.
I don’t know about overtraining specifically, but can’t an iron deficiency sometimes manifest some of the same symptoms? In that case, the prescription would be iron pills … and rest.
What’s a cortisol day curve?
This is something I don’t know a ton about, but I am very interested in hormones. They are cool things!
If overtraining is real (I think everyone agrees that it is) then there should be some medical benchmarks so that a doctor could know that you were indeed overtrained and could prescribe the proper dosage of rest. And since the reason you go to a doctor is to speed up recovery one would think that if this is a medical condition that a doctor could prescribe something to speed up your recovery. If you went to the doctor with the flu and the doc said to just rest sure you would probably get better with time. But it might take A LOT longer than necessary.
It seems like all of these athletes dope so that they can train longer and harder while avoiding overtraining.
Physiological over training is hard to induce.
Drugs are not used to avoid over training they are used to recover faster from training and/or to allow you to sustain a higher workload to make greater adaptations from training.
Tigerchik,
Isn’t that just the regular cycle of cortisol? You’re supposed to have more cortisol in your blood early in the day than later, I think. And then you’re supposed to have very little in your blood while you’re sleeping.
our cortisol levels follow a diurnal variation pattern, similar to growth hormone. It goes down when we sleep and shoots up just before we wake up, and during times of stress. So, depending on the time of the day when the blood is taken, and your own personal diurnal pattern, there is a huge variation in your blood cortisol levels throughout the day.
I don’t know the specifics of the cortisol day curve test; it’s a fairly infrequently done test. It’s supposed to help interpret your cortisol “decay” T 1/2 from a spike e.g. after waking. It’s mostly done AFAIK to help docs/patients decide on the optimum regime for hydrocortisone pills to prevent addisonian crises.