How hard is it to keep the LBS completely out of play?

Triathlon Forum
1

I went into one of my local bike shops this morning to buy some cleats, and was whining about an ebay auction on a Cervelo, I wanted. One of the mechanic/employees was listening to me, and he just yelled out, “Be careful on Ebay, I wouldn’t…” And I stopped him. This time I argued with him a bit, instead of just nodding my head because I was in his shop.

He had that repugnant look on his face. They sell Specialized and Trek. And I can tell in a whiff of a second if the LBS is ANTI-EBAY or not.

It was ANTI-EBAY.

I decided to just take a chance and asked, okay, how much can you sell me this E5 2004 S-Works frame, in 61cm. I can get a 2 month old used on ebay, for 400-500 bucks. His first reply was “who’s doing that, which dealer?” Its a person. I email them. Check them out. I’m pretty savy. Its real, its true. I swear its true. I don’t want a warranty. I want to take my chances. Why? Because I don’t want to pay 1259 for this frame, here.

FYI, That includes the fork, too. I’ll buy the seat post, the handlebars, I’ll buy the saddle and wheels, myself. I’ll bring that all to you. How much will you charge me to put it all together with Ultegra. His reply was “Man, I don’t know.”

He gets out his catalogue and comes back with I can get you a 60 frame with Ultegra and a wheelset here for X."

You know. Screw it.

Normally, from what I gathered here is that most LBS, will put an Ebayed Bike together and charge your ass for it. This guy didn’t even want to play that tune, AT ALL.

I walked out to my car, where I resolved to just go out and buy huge bike manuals, buy a Park Tool Set, some expensive torque gauges, something to true up wheels, and take these stupid bastards completely out of the picture, never to go in there again. Ever. This can’t be that hard to learn.

For gods sakes, its the same technology in place since 1850. I can learn how to put a bike together and fix one. And, in the long run, I’ll be better off.

2

Sounds good, UNTIL the LBS doesn’t exist anymore and you blow your last tube on the Saturday ride. Sounds good until tune-up time. Very, VERY few customer types out there have the depth of experience to do really outstanding work when things get a little hairy.

The LBS can’t compete with Ebay. Of course you can get wonderous deals on stuff there. Just don’t go rubbing it in their face. Those guys are just trying to make a living. . .or just pay the rent so they can afford to ride a couple of hours a day. They aren’t getting rich. And every time someone like you comes in their shop telling them about how great a deal they got somewhere else. . .they know that is money NOT coming into their shop. Most LBS folks work hard for a pittance.

How do I know? I’ve wrenched part-time off and on in my younger days. Good thing I didn’t require the income for living expenses. Back then we had the same issue with the “I can get this $10 less through Performance, including shipping,” crowd. Trust me, they aren’t getting rich charging you that extra $10. They’re not even making as much as Performance is. But then again, they’ll be there next Saturday, after you taco a wheel on a training ride right before Sunday’s race. And they’ll even be nice if you don’t continually rub it in their face about all the great deals you get somewhere else. . .

3

I buy most of my bike stuff off ebay but it’s mainly because of necessity. Living in a rural area I just don’t have a LBS nearby. I actually have to travel almost three hours to get a really good high end bike shop. I do however support the local scuba shop. I pay a bit more there because I want them to be able to survive in the area since they can give me services that I can’t get on ebay…

It’s almost impossible for any retail business to compete against the prices on ebay. They have to make up the difference in customer service to get the business. Understand the costs involved in running a business. A business may gross a million a year but have an overhead of $950,000. Then the owner still has to pay income tax on the 50K profit. Contrary to popular belief, the LBS isn’t trying to rip you off. They’re just trying to make a living, just like everybody else.

It’s understandable that you want the best deal. After all, it’s your hard earned money. But it was really, really bad form in even mentioning ebay in a LBS. Next time, just be quiet about about it.

4

I was watching that Cervelo (61cm) as well, on eBay. I called the local bike shop and asked what they would charge for the same bike. I was quoted almost $300 less then the one on eBay went for in the end. Besides, this was for a 2004 model not the 2003 that was on eBay.

I’ll pay slightly higher prices at the local bike shop in a heart beat. I know what its like owning your own business. I’ll get to know the bike shop and eventually they get to know me. Then they start doing favors and giving discounts, things that eBay, Performance, nashbar, etc. can’t do. Please realize, I buy lots of stuff from eBay and discount catalogs, but I also spend lots of money in the LBS. I’ve even had a LBS call me to se if I had parts (NOS) laying around cause someone needed a part they didn’t have.

BTW - I do ALL my own bike work. Nobody touches my bike but me. I’ve taken bike mechanics classes, but more importantly I learned from the mechanics at the LBS cause they got to know me and didn’t mind me watching and teaching me as they repaired bikes. See if eBay or Performnce can do that for you!

5

I’ve got *lots *of stuff on ebay. nonetheless, I would have been much, much more tactful. I have no problems with getting the bike store to build up a frame I bought on ebay, or to prep it for building (done this several times), or to buy the frame at the bike store and build it up myself (I just did the last one), especially if it’s a big-name frame. I wouldn’t rub things in. I’ve said things that could be construed as rubbing things in before, and I felt bad.

I can hardly blame the mechanic for not being willing to accomodate you, frankly. I’ve got a feeling that if you’d phrased yourself better, he would have been fine with building your bike up, especially if it wasn’t a brand they stocked. they do, after all, make most of their money off labor.

I’ve put several bikes together, and I’m still no expert. there are things I don’t have the expertise and/or tools for, and I will go to the LBS. and when I make it big, I’m going to support the LBS a bit more (assuming they’re nice people). now, I’m a poor student.

kind of off topic, but the owner of the store who ‘sponsors’ the university team is a whore. we arranged for a significant increase in sponsorship with the store manager, and we arranged to do a parts order. last minute, he cancels the parts order and fires the store manager and his girlfriend (who worked there also). now, if you had spoken to that store manager (Great Lakes Cycling in Ann Arbor, just because I’m rather pissed at them), I’d have cheered you on. the mechanics there, incidentally, were fine with me bringing in an ebayed bike and working on it. I had some issues with the headset, and ended up coming in quite a bit.

6

I am a little guilty of this practice. It is by far cheaper for me to ship items to Australia from the USA than buying local, or even from ‘big’ bicycle parts distributors who sell slightly cheaper than mainstream recommended prices. I buy most of my needs from the US, and only get incidentals here locally. I need to save every $ i can, with building my house, saving for Hawaii and studying. One of my mates is the local wrench and does most of my needs FOC, coz he just loves doing it.

pinkboy

7

Let me get this straight, the shop you called is selling a 2004 Team Soloist for 1478 bucks, full outfitted, with ultegra?

8

I think we’re dealing with 2 issues here - one is of you building your own bike, sourcing all your own parts and maintaing a healthy enough stock of them so that you’ll never be stuck for a part again. The other is your relationship with your LBS.

The first isn’t too difficult at all. Hell, if you want I have electronic copies of the Barnett Manuals that you’re welcome to. A toolkit like the Park complete (http://www.bikeworld.com/product/parktool/pk57.htm) will set you back around $600, plus another hundred or so for a decent stand. You can piece together the basics for a hell of a lot less, too. (Most people don’t need headset race installation/removal tools, fork steerer tube cutters, etc)

The second issue however, is a little more sticky. As one of the previous posters mentioned, I think it has a lot to do with attitude and how you interact with the shop guys. Granted, there are some shops owned/manned by complete assholes, but this is not the norm. If you had told the guy that you had a frame and a bunch of parts and that you wanted him to build it for you, I’m sure he’d have been able to price it pretty easily. x hours labour plus shop supplies and incidentals. If however, you walk in with a chip on your shoulder about how you’re getting ripped off because they charge n times more than what you can get a similar product for, used, from a private seller who is not trying to make a living by selling bicycles and related services, you are going to get a different answer. Frankly, if I was a bike shop owner I would rather lose some business rather than have to deal with angry/whiny customers who are always going on about how they can save a few bucks here and a few bucks there, and how I’m ripping them off.

Perhaps this is not how you were acting in the store, but it is the picture you’ve painted for us.

I do buy some things on ebay, and I also buy some things on-line. Frankly, as much as I’d like to support my LBS(s) I can’t always justify paying 1.5 times more for major items. A lot of the time, the on-line giants let stuff go for less than wholesale - how is any LBS supposed to compete with that? Simply put, they can’t. As long as you respect the LBS and the role that they can play in your purchasing/servicing needs, I think that you can safely and freely purchase goods from anywhere you choose. Most of the good ones won’t begrudge you buying some stuff elsewhere as long as you don’t come in and brag about it (potentially costing them other customers). The you can also count on them to give you good service when you need a new wheel built up, headset cups pressed, etc.

9

Sometimes a hot pizza and a cold half-rack will go a long ways at the right LBS.

Just a thought.

Brett

10

You’re going to go out and buy a couple thousand bucks worth of tools so that you can save a couple hundred bucks on an eBay bike? Am I missing something here?

11

Hmmmm, well, I think I am with you on this one boothrand.

Natural selection will take care of the dealer you are talking about. If the two brands they are carrying are Trek and Specialized it sounds to me like they may not be exploring some of the more emerging brands that will be the “Treks” and “Specializeds” of tomorrow.

Also, an aversion to E-bay on the part of your dealer (and also on the part of our vendors) is short sighted. It is also like trying to resist gravity. E-bay is bigger than the entire bike industry. trying to exist without it is like trying to make prohibition work. Impossible. The forward thinking dealers use E-bay as an enormous cash cow. As far as I am concerned, E-bay is the best thing to happen to the industry in the last 40 years.

The majority of LBS’s need a lot of work- ourselves included too. I am no MBA. Ask any vendor who does business with me. They’ll tell you.

However, better LBS’s go a long way toward supporting the sport. Right now it is 5:40 AM on a Sunday. I am in here getting redy to leave for a very small local off-road triathlon where we will spend about $2000 cash supporting the event in sponsorship and the next 7 hours performing neutral technical support for the athletes as well as doing some PA announcing and other assorted volunteering. We do that 7 times per year at local events and we also sponsor other local events, teams and charities. We helped pay for the local church’s new bleachers in their gymnasium for their youth program and a program to help immigrants from the middle east with clothing and transportation. That is just the tip of the iceberg too.

We go away and that goes away.

It sounds like your LBS is a bit clueless. They will either wake up and smell the coffee or be fixing lawn mowers in a couple years.

In the meantime, our E-bay ID is actiontombikesport.

12

Well f’in said, Booth Rand.

Out of the 5 dealers near me, only one of them will bargain any on price.

I was looking at a C’dale, and dealer #1 had the 2003 model listed for $2400. I asked him if he could make me a deal. He said that the 2004’s are MSRP’d at $2250, and that’s a pretty good price, couldn’t go any lower. So I went to the ONE dealer in town that WILL make a deal, and he sold me a 2004 (better specs) for $2000. There’s a lot to be said for being a business person first, bike lover second.

The thing that’s driven me to working on my own bikes is the dearth of competency. I know of exactly 2 good mechanics in my area. I bought the book after taking my Trek in for a tune up and having it come out unable to completely shift through 1/2 of the gears. No joke.

13

I hope your all healed up!

Bummer deal about GLC&F.

Will you be out for 'cross season?

-Dave Koesel

14

Remeber that when you ask a dealer to bargain on price it is exactly the same as your boss coming to you on payday and saying, “I know we normally pay you this much per week, but I was wondering if we could go ahead and give you 15% less this week?”

Would you be OK with that? When someone asks me to bargai they are saying to me, “Are you willing to accept a lower standard of living for me?”

The answer is, I am not. Nor would I expect you to for me.

15

Normally, from what I gathered here is that most LBS, will put an Ebayed Bike together and charge your ass for it.

Just wondering, but how long does it take for the LBS to put a bunch of e-bay parts together into a whole bike? How much does their fee work out to on an hourly basis?

How long would it take you to do the same job? And would the results be comparable?

16

I hope your all healed up!

the truck took the stage. I took the overall. you race with Team Bikesport; didn’t anyone who knows me tell you about the new bike?

I have a fascia tear in my left shin that will require surgery to repair. it hurts too much to run on, and it’s not getting better. I was planning on an Olympic-distance du in October plus the entire CX season. I expect to get operated on (minor op, don’t worry) in September, which is cutting it rather fine. still, I can do the sprint du (Great Pumpkin and Spooky Sprint, in Stoney Creek Metropark, Shelby Twp) if I can’t do the full monty. my orthopod said that he’d probably want me not to run for about 2 weeks after the operation, so I think I’ll at least be able to finish the running leg.

given that I just built myself a nice set of tubulars, glued the tires on, and bought a Redline Conquest Pro, I kind of have to do cross season, don’t I? I think I can manage it.

17

No one on the team talks to me. My ego and temper on the bike scare them away.

You can just do the cross season like I do and make the race to the first barrier. I never run, the fastest I get on foot is plodding.

-SD

18

Khai is exactly right. You should learn how to build a bike and do your own wrench work and you should buy gear from whoever wants to sell it to you cheapest. Get a set of tools and start learning. If you have a decent set of regular tools and you aren’t going to seat headsets or tear apart hubs, you can do just about everything with an $8 BB tool, a $5 cassette tool, a $7 pedal wrench a $4 spoke wrench and maybe a truing stand.

All that doesn’t mean you need to but the LBS guy’s balls though. A lot of the goods and services LBSs sell is not stuff I want to buy (or I don’t want to pay the freight) but I bet even the asshole you dealt with will someday have something that you will need and most LBS guys are not that bad. I have brought a frame and parts that I obviously bought mail order to Hank at Edge Cyclesports and asked him to put them together and I have had supergo do bits and pieces of jobs that I wasn’t comfortable doing (like headsets). Hank doesn’t send me Christmas cards but he was professional about it, charged me a price I thought was fair to both of us for his labor and did great work. Supergo was indifferent, a little overpriced and did so-so work but they were exactly the same way years ago when I was buying everything from them and having them do all my work.

Smart LBS guys price their services so that they make money in the shop no matter how much or little you bring in. They know more is better than less but less is better than nothing.

19

Although your approach leaves much to be desired, I ended up with pretty much the same result as you. I went to the park tools web site and printed out their instructions for anything I need to do. I’ve got a 3 ring binder in the shop with all the instructions. Anytime I get a new piece of gear I print out the spec sheet, parts sheets, etc. and add them to the binder. I’ve found that most everything I do on the bike does not require special tools but when I need them I’ll buy only the tool I need rather than buying the entire tool box from Park. I’ve got a $10 torque wrench from Autozone.

  • I wanted a Cervelo but nobody in town sold them. I asked the LBS, that does not carry tri bikes, if they could special order it. They couldn’t. So I asked if I mail ordered it would they put it together, nope they weren’t interested.

  • The last time I went into the LBS and needed a tube, they didn’t have any!!! An LBS without freakin tubes!!! They told me to come back sometime next week. Remind me again why I am paying for this kind of convenience?

  • I brought my bike in for a tune up, and when it left it didn’t shift right. I couldn’t use the largest cog. The mechanic told me that was normal. I found many, many parts that had not been cleaned or greased.

  • When I got a tubular race wheel I went into the LBS to get the tire. They had 1 tubular tire. Not one brand. Not one size, one tire. They couldn’t tell me why I should use this particular brand/model, just that it was the only one they had. It cost twice what it costs mail order.

20

That’s not exactly the same, Tom, not even close.

I already have an agreement with my employer, I don’t already have an agreement to purchase a bike.

It’s more like being offered a job, being offered a certain salary, then countering with a higher salary.