In 2013, I did my first 2 70.3’s. I went 4:55 and 4:44. I did those with a 270 calories per hour on the bike. I had absolutely no problems with GI on the runs.
IMWI 2013 comes around. I upped my cals/hr for the bike to 318. I had faded off the end of the bike a fair amount. It could have been fitness. The first half of the run was had with a somewhat full stomach. Full enough to be uncomfortable. Got better around mile 5. It never really emptied, just became tolerable, ending with a 10:55.
2014 rolls around, 70.3 mid summer. 360 cals/hr on the bike. Terrible day. Bad fade at end of bike and torturous run. Stomach sooo full, I was thinking seriously about just puking to empty it. Still managed a 4:5x.
IMWI 2014. Trying to limit the water intake on the bike to combat the fullness issues starting the run. I cant do it. I can’t not drink the water when I’m thirsty knowing the run is still ahead of me. I take in 350 cals/hr. Fade a bit in the 4-5 hr mark on the bike. The first 7 miles of the run were very painful. My intent was to not walk any of the run. That went out the window if I had any desire to finish this race. I walked every up hill for the first 5 miles to try to calm my incredibly full stomach. This, in my mind, was a completely defensive move. My stomach was soo full. No room to even slosh. I wound up 10:44.
The subject line asks the question. I know everyone body is different. What I haven’t seen yet though is someone’s RR that went sub 10 claiming to have only taken in under 300 cals/hr on the bike. Some are close to 450!!
What are you taking for calories? When my stomach gets that full feeling like nothing I take in is emptying I take in only water for a while until I start feeling better. Sometimes your stomach contents need to be diluted to be absorbed. This could be what is happening to you- it would also explain the fade if your body wasn’t actually absorbing the calories you are taking in. For recent HIM races I have found that less is more - I only take in around 200 cal/hr on the bike and around 150/ hr on the run and feel great. FWIW I am 155 lbs and usually finish a half in 4:20-4:25. I’ve only done one full and I took in around 320 cal/ hr on the bike and 250/hr on the run. No issues, but I went so easy first half of the bike I probably could have digested a t-bone.
I terms of how fast can you go on <300, it depends on size among other things. If a small guy can go the same speed as a big guy with less power output he is burning fewer kJ and doesn’t need to replenish as much glycogen so can get away with fewer calories. There are too many variables such as how efficient the rider is etc. to say exactly how many watts/kg you can push on 300 cal/hr - but I am sure there are lots of people who can ride 5 hrs on 300 cal/hr or under.
i took in ~1300 during the entire race at IMAZ 2013. that was 8 scoops of generation ucan on the bike (mixed pancake batter thick in a water bottle between my aero bars), 4 scoops on the run, and a cookie at mile 25 for the hell of it. our tri club took 19 to this race and several of my friends had a similar experience with this product.
i did not go sub 10. i went 11:20. hope to overcome some nagging injuries and hit <10 in the next year or two.
this nutrition plan does not work for me when i use gels/gummies/sport drink. i need to be about 2600-3200 cals when i use stuff other than genucan. i switched to genucan because it doesn’t upset my stomach.
was pleasantly surprised to realize i don’t need to take in as many calories as well. genucan says it’s because you can use your fat stores because their product doesn’t cause an insulin spike, but my doctor friends tell me that doesn’t happen during exercise. i guess i don’t care how it works as long as it works.
i took in ~1300 during the entire race at IMAZ 2013. that was 8 scoops of generation ucan on the bike (mixed pancake batter thick in a water bottle between my aero bars), 4 scoops on the run, and a cookie at mile 25 for the hell of it. our tri club took 19 to this race and several of my friends had a similar experience with this product.
i did not go sub 10. i went 11:20. hope to overcome some nagging injuries and hit <10 in the next year or two.
this nutrition plan does not work for me when i use gels/gummies/sport drink. i need to be about 2600-3200 cals when i use stuff other than genucan. i switched to genucan because it doesn’t upset my stomach.
was pleasantly surprised to realize i don’t need to take in as many calories as well. genucan says it’s because you can use your fat stores because their product doesn’t cause an insulin spike, but my doctor friends tell me that doesn’t happen during exercise. i guess i don’t care how it works as long as it works.
DING-we have a winner! Your doctor friend is mistaken about burning body fat for fuel while exercising. If you continue using UCan for training and adjust your eating to higher healthy fat and lower carbs (especially the sugary gels), you’ll find that you are what you eat. In other words, if you want to burn fat, then eat it!
Last race I just went on the 1g of carb an hour per kg of SIS… and drank to comfort… it was hunky dory and got just over 10 hr race… was i bored of SIS by the end, yup… but i didn’t puke, cramp or shit myself, and that’s a good day in anyone’s book… dunno what that means calories per hour… obviously the first hour was zero cos me head was underwater…
Good luck finding something that sits well with you…
You will probably go much faster than your previous competitions.
Generally, athletes don’t absorb more than 1g carbs per kilo bodyweight an hour. (It is trainable, and there are individual differences). If eating more then the body can absorb/digest you get this packed stomack, and the body actually absorb less.
1g/kg/h is anyway enough for most of us. In IM pace most of the energy comes from fat resources, which we don’t need to refill during the race.
Any actual evidence of improved RER and increased performance for the so called “fat-adapted” (as misnomer given all normal athletes metabolise fat) in low-carb/high fat diets?
Last race I just went on the 1g of carb an hour per kg of SIS… and drank to comfort… it was hunky dory and got just over 10 hr race… was i bored of SIS by the end, yup… but i didn’t puke, cramp or shit myself, and that’s a good day in anyone’s book… dunno what that means calories per hour… obviously the first hour was zero cos me head was underwater…
Good luck finding something that sits well with you…
So by that logic, I’m 170lbs or 77kg. So I’d take in 77g of carbs per hour? Seems low, but I’m an idiot when it comes to this stuff.
9:49 on 280cal/hr (5:03 bike) in gel and liquid form (no fat or protein). I’m 6’3" and was probably 178lb then. Definitely look at your carbs-calories per amount of liquid to maximize gastric emptying.
In addition to what other’s said, you might want to look at your salt intake. Salt helps the carbs absorb in your gut. Sodium glucose co-transporter. I never have issues with cramping, but I still take in a good amount of salt tablets to help my stomach digest the glucose I’m taking. It helps with both bonking and feeling less full.
I am a bigger guy but do fine on right at 250-300 in liquid form due to prior stomach issues. Have a few pretty good races under my belt on that. Certainly, nutrition does not keep me from running faster than I do.
I found experimenting with water and electrolyte levels improved my gi problems. I think Jordan Rapp also found that more electolytes helped his GI problems.
I would say that 270 caps per hour may be sufficient depending on your size but I wouldn’t be surprised if you taking in less fluids had a negative impact.
i took in ~1300 during the entire race at IMAZ 2013. that was 8 scoops of generation ucan on the bike (mixed pancake batter thick in a water bottle between my aero bars), 4 scoops on the run, and a cookie at mile 25 for the hell of it. our tri club took 19 to this race and several of my friends had a similar experience with this product.
i did not go sub 10. i went 11:20. hope to overcome some nagging injuries and hit <10 in the next year or two.
this nutrition plan does not work for me when i use gels/gummies/sport drink. i need to be about 2600-3200 cals when i use stuff other than genucan. i switched to genucan because it doesn’t upset my stomach.
was pleasantly surprised to realize i don’t need to take in as many calories as well. genucan says it’s because you can use your fat stores because their product doesn’t cause an insulin spike, but my doctor friends tell me that doesn’t happen during exercise. i guess i don’t care how it works as long as it works.
DING-we have a winner! Your doctor friend is mistaken about burning body fat for fuel while exercising. If you continue using UCan for training and adjust your eating to higher healthy fat and lower carbs (especially the sugary gels), you’ll find that you are what you eat. In other words, if you want to burn fat, then eat it!
Now, somebody hand me the California almonds
I believe that his doctor friend was referring to no insulin spikes during exercise, which is absolutely true. The research sponsored by UCAN even showed that there was no difference in fat oxidation between UCAN and Malto, only difference glycerol and FFA levels in blood.
I would still look closely at you pacing and try no eating the first 20 minute out of the water. If you have air in your stomach and it sloshes and some passes to you intestines… its’ GAME OVER. Doesn’t matter what you eat at this point. I actually ate 10% more than I had planned or practices in my first IM (ate 1 extra gel late on the bike) (440cal/hr… 76kg). I also rode a higher IF than planned. But I burped during my swim several times once on the bike and didn’t drink until 15 minutes and really focused on riding easy.
I then proceeded to drink almost everything I could grab on the run plus 1-1/2 bananas, some grapes, 3 gels. I was never full or bloated, never hungry and had tons of energy. Pounded a double cheeseburger, cheese curds and fries 2 hours after the race. Couldn’t stomach the chocolate milk at the finish line… gave that to my 5 year old, she pounded it after a long day of spectating.
I would still look closely at you pacing and try no eating the first 20 minute out of the water.** If you have air in your stomach and it sloshes and some passes to you intestines… its’ GAME OVER. Doesn’t matter what you eat at this point.** I actually ate 10% more than I had planned or practices in my first IM (ate 1 extra gel late on the bike) (440cal/hr… 76kg). I also rode a higher IF than planned. But I burped during my swim several times once on the bike and didn’t drink until 15 minutes and really focused on riding easy.
I then proceeded to drink almost everything I could grab on the run plus 1-1/2 bananas, some grapes, 3 gels. I was never full or bloated, never hungry and had tons of energy. Pounded a double cheeseburger, cheese curds and fries 2 hours after the race. Couldn’t stomach the chocolate milk at the finish line… gave that to my 5 year old, she pounded it after a long day of spectating.
Whatchu talkin bout Willis???
What in the world are you referring to in the bolded section???
I didn’t name the products because I didn’t want this to become a my stuff is great and XX is crap. I was using Hammer Perpetuim. This year I mixed that 50/50 with Heed. 3 scoops of each into a 24 oz bottle. 2 bottles of mix. I had a 24oz bta of water and probably another 24 oz of water and a small amount of Perform. Total fluid of around 100 oz for the 5:29 bike split. Plus 2 Hammer bars. One starting the stick (mile 15) and the other coming back into Verona (mile 60ish). I took in almost nothing for the first 15 minutes. Being concerned about the full stomach thing, I had been training trying to reduce my overall fluid intake, not calories. This seemed to work ok. I had a little fullness running off a 5 hr training ride. During the race, I just couldn’t bring myself, while being thirsty, to limit my water intake. I did have 4 salt stick capsules on the bike also. This year, even with prehydrating the day before and the morning of, I peed once in the last leg of the swim, but had to force, really force, myself to pee on the bike at about mile 105.
