I am trying to put together a plan for the Great Floridian in October. I really have no business trying an iron distance race, and I have absolutely no illusions of grandeur about the race. I am at a point in my life where it’s either try an iron distance now or wait a decade. I’d like to go ahead and do it. I’ve got Friel’s TTB, Going Long and Bernhardt’s book of plans. I’ve read Gordo’s stuff, and have tried to gobble up just about all the training tidbits I can glean from the web. I think I have a pretty decent understanding of what it will take to finish the race. I’ve read the key workouts – 6 hour ride, 2:30/3:00 run, and 90 minute swim, all that.
But this is something I’ve often thought about: I hope to finish in around 13 hours, give or take. How can I (or anyone else) adequately train for an event that will take 11, 12, or 13+ hours on 6 hour workouts? Doesn’t basic physiology dictate that you eventually run out of gas somewhere, leading to the dreaded (but all too common) survival shuffle?
I’ve done two IMs and I’ve got two more planned this season…and so far they’ve all hurt. I think it’s easy to get totally twisted around with all of the data and knowledge that is out there. In my opinion it’s best to keep it simple and get in the key workouts and try not to get caught up in all the different training plans that are available. Now I imagine when you get to the pointy end of the field most athletes are pretty in tune to all kinds of training/racing/nutrition knowledge and will do what it takes to get to that level.
I’ve done two 24 hour xc ski races on training workouts no longer than 6 hours. In fact, from what I’m told, I actually hold the American 24 hour distance record (I’m not sure who keeps track of this stuff). So what I’ve learned from these races is you’ve gotta have the mindset to only focus on what you can control…both in training and in the race. Let everything else go.
At the most basic level, Ironman is 12-14 hours of low level exercise. Using the sports physiology principle of specificity, if you are doing 12-14 hours of aerobic exercise it is reasonable to do workouts approaching that duration, but necessarily that entire duration, in preparation.
I agree with that 100%. Seems entirely logical. I am a big proponent of the key 10 hour pre-Ironman workouts.
I’m not sure I agree with you here. what are you calling a “key 10 hour pre-Ironman workouts.”
I guess this boils down to the “long brick” arguement. Does doing a 2hr run after a 5-6 hr bike ride actually help either your bike or your run vs doing a harder 2hr run or harder 6 hr bike seperately?
The idea is that your Ironman race is your peak effort and experience so you build your fitness over time and get the benefits at the race, not during training. You can’t practically do a 10 hour work out at your level of experience without having to take lots of time off afterwards or risk injury before your race, so you build it up, like putting deposits in the bank, and then withdraw it all on race day. No one runs 3-4 hours at a time to rain for a marathon. But they do run 10 hours over a week in training. If you build to a point where you can do several weeks of 13 hours total training. You can take a week or two off to rest up, then you can do a single day of 13 hours.
You have to remember that you are doing that 6 hour workout after a week of working (if you work) and your mid week workouts. Then you have to recover and do it all over again.
A 10 hour session might be good for some but certainly is not necessary if you are looking to break 13. It would require significant buildup and base to be able to recover. I think my longest session timewise was a 7 hour ride with a 45 min run afterward. It took four or 5 months to build up to that.
Agreed. I am doing two bricks a week: one long (right now at 1/2IM distances) and one faster (at about 1/3rd IM distances) on opposite ends of the week (i.e.: Thurs and Sun). Each week I either up the intensity slightly (say 5bpm) or I add on 20/10 to the duration until I am at 1/2IM distance on the shorter brick and 2/3rds IM distances on the longer one. I will do a 6hr ride + 4 hr run ONCE as my longest session about 4-6 weeks out.
That 10hr session is what will get my body to tip that balance ever so slightly more towards increased fat burn vs. carb burn.
Check out Michael Ross’ Maximum Performance for Cyclists. Has some very interesting workouts designed to promote the adaptations needed for endurance without ever going over 2 hours and most only 1 hour, along with timing of dietary modifications. Heavy emphasis on intensity too.
Since I like doing very long sessions it kind of goes against my grain but I can’t really find anything wrong with the science or reasoning behind it.
“I will do a 6hr ride + 4 hr run ONCE as my longest session about 4-6 weeks out.”
How is this in comparison to your actual IM predicted time? Do you have any problems recovering from such a workout? At what intensity vs race intensity do you do this workout at?
My confusion is this. If your doing the ride and run at a pace that doesn’t cause significant fatigue and or damage, IOW at pace that is almost recovery pace, will it not take significant time time 4+ weeks to recover completely? If you are doing it at such a low effort level to not cause significant damage is the pace actually helping?
“That 10hr session is what will get my body to tip that balance ever so slightly more towards increased fat burn vs. carb burn.”
Again confused as isn’t it effort level that dictates the level of fat burn? Or are you saying this workout significantly improves your fitness?
Sorry for all the questions but this is truely interesting to me. If I did something like this I would have to do it at a fairly low effort level otherwise I’d likely not be 100% recovered for the race. Then again I’m not in that great of shape.
Well my friend, the answer is simple. If you are limited to 6 hour training workouts, you just do 2 in a row! Voila, you’re ready for race day.
Alternatively, youdon’t actually do the 12 hour race, you do a 6 hour race, just like you trained, then do another 6 hours and Voila, you finished the race!
I do it at say 130bpm, while my race intensity is 150bpm. As my ex-pro buddy says “when you start the run (in training), it should be slow, it should feel… pedestrian”.
I am currently not having any problems recoving from 10hrs of bricks split into 2sessions/week now. I really thought I would have found it harder, but as long as I watch my HR, and keep my intensity in check, I can complete the workouts no problem. Once I build up to a longer duration for each of these bricks, as long as I can continue to recover, then race day should feel almost the same. Just like training for a marathon, I don’t go run 40-42k as my longest training run, I might do 35k max, more like 30-32. SO I want to build to say 2/3rds of my distance/duration at race pace. Because I am estimating my bike/run split to be 7:00/5:00 (yes I am slow), I will train at that same ratio: 7:5. What ever duration I ride, I run 5/7th of that time. So 2:20 ride/1:40 run or 3:30 ride/2:30 run. You get the idea. I have already found that I can far exceed the 1/3 or 1/2 IM run distances in this ratio. Once I do the 1/2IM in Aug, I may readjust that ratio.
When you “run your engine” at anything above aerobic levels (i.e.: zone 1,2) you are burning more carbs thatn fat, in general. When doing the lower intensity aerobic exercise, you will burn more fat. I am trying to train my body to 1) burn more fat by doing the longer slower bricks and 2) adapt to race pace by doing the shorter bricks. This is my understanding after many conversations with nutritionists.
The easiest answer is to do a scientfic reasearch of how the body (muscles, digestion, energy…) works. There are basically nothing different that happens in your body after the first hour of excercise. Hour 3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13 etc are basically a repetition of the second hour. Teoretically, 1-2 Hours training passes should be enough. In practice it’s worth having some longer trainign passes to build experience/confidence, and specific train for water and energy intake.
I’m high up in my AG doing sub-10 IM’s with the majority of training passes of approx 1 H, one weekly 2-3 H and only a few longer sessions, typical 4 yearly rides that’s 4H or longer. (And I always have a strong finish.)
One technique to try is the supercompensation weekend: about four weeks out from the event you do something like a 2000m swim, 6hr bike + 1 hr run on the Saturday, then a 2hr run the next morning. Basically you are doing the IM distance, but over two days rather than a day. Then you are in recovery and taper heading to the event. It means you can hydrate and fuel up inbetween the sessions, but its still stretching you to get through the final run. I tried it and it went quite well:
I did Great Floridian last year and my best advice would be to practice hill climbing on the bike, hit the gym for leg strength and get a bike that climbs and descends well. There are a lot of steep hills on that course that trashed me on the second loop ( especially sugarloaf hill). Dont worry about your finishing time, just worry about finishing. The Demons are in full force around the lake with its 3 loops. It takes a lot when you see someone with 1 loop to go and you still have 3 to go. Its a great race for your first time. Good Luck.
