How do I get there from here (or my swim sucks)

I race the Tempe International Olympic yesterday. I have the (edit: meant to post) 3rd fastest bike split in my AG, 4th fastest run and my swim split… well lets just say I am out 5 minutes behind the front group.
I expect to add some speed to the run, coming back from hamstring issues and no speedwork coming in to the race, but the swim is killing me.
I am going to see a coach for some more video analysis of my swim stroke to work on technique, my question relates more to workout structure. If I take 3 minutes off my swim I get competitive.
I am swimming 4x per week, usually around 2500 per workout, slowly building up because I have a partially torn rotator cuff on the right that gets cranky if I am not carefull and took me out completely last year. An example of a set in a workout would be 3x400 holding 1:50 per 100 SCM. I obviously need to swim faster, but how? Is the answer to do more shorter intervals working on speed and then build up the distance?
I am looking for ideas here.

thanks

Kevin

I race the Tempe International Olympic yesterday. I have the (edit: meant to post) 3rd fastest bike split in my AG, 4th fastest run and my swim split… well lets just say I am out 5 minutes behind the front group.
I expect to add some speed to the run, coming back from hamstring issues and no speedwork coming in to the race, but the swim is killing me.
I am going to see a coach for some more video analysis of my swim stroke to work on technique, my question relates more to workout structure. If I take 3 minutes off my swim I get competitive.
I am swimming 4x per week, usually around 2500 per workout, slowly building up because I have a partially torn rotator cuff on the right that gets cranky if I am not carefull and took me out completely last year. An example of a set in a workout would be 3x400 holding 1:50 per 100 SCM. I obviously need to swim faster, but how? Is the answer to do more shorter intervals working on speed and then build up the distance?
I am looking for ideas here.

thanks

Kevin

If you can only hold 1:50s on 10,000 yards per week, you desperately need a coach. What can you do for an all out 100? That is plenty of volume to easily be at least hold low 1:30s, even with marginal form. I think with some adjustments you could make a huge jump, because based on the volume you should have the strength.

How much of a problem is the rotator cuff? Is that impacting you that much.

The rotator cuff doesnt bother me while swimming unless I do too much intensity too quickly. Last year its was doing fingertip drag drills prescribed by a coach that buggered it up. An all out 100 for me would probably net me something around 1:35 for 100m.

Kevin

I race the Tempe International Olympic yesterday. I have the (edit: meant to post) 3rd fastest bike split in my AG, 4th fastest run and my swim split… well lets just say I am out 5 minutes behind the front group.
I expect to add some speed to the run, coming back from hamstring issues and no speedwork coming in to the race, but the swim is killing me.
I am going to see a coach for some more video analysis of my swim stroke to work on technique, my question relates more to workout structure. If I take 3 minutes off my swim I get competitive.
I am swimming 4x per week, usually around 2500 per workout, slowly building up because I have a partially torn rotator cuff on the right that gets cranky if I am not carefull and took me out completely last year. An example of a set in a workout would be 3x400 holding 1:50 per 100 SCM. I obviously need to swim faster, but how? Is the answer to do more shorter intervals working on speed and then build up the distance?
I am looking for ideas here.

thanks

Kevin

If you can only hold 1:50s on 10,000 yards per week, you desperately need a coach. What can you do for an all out 100? That is plenty of volume to easily be at least hold low 1:30s, even with marginal form. I think with some adjustments you could make a huge jump, because based on the volume you should have the strength.

How much of a problem is the rotator cuff? Is that impacting you that much.

I agree. You said you are getting “more” video analysis. Maybe your swim coach is not giving you the right information? Just because someone is a coach doesn’t mean they are always right. On the other hand some coaches know all the right answers but can’t teach it. I took swimming advice from people when I first started swimming and it was disasterous. I ended up looking like a blender on high speed. I ended up videoing myself and comparing it to great swimmers like Grant Hackett. That approach may not work for everyone but it really helped me. Also, check out Marc Evans videos on Youtube. He has some great early vertical forearm information.

Post your videos here too. STers have a ton of great swimming advice. Everytime I post my stroke on here I get lots of great advice.

Good Luck!

Don’t do finger tip drag drill.

Saw you called this evening, ring me up tomorrow if it’s anything, tried calling back.

Whoever gave you some running advice is a GENIUS though.

Indeed, some f*%king genius suggested running more and less at the same time and it worked!
I need to exit the swim in the same time zone as said f*%king genius :wink:

Kevin

Before we piss all over the fingertip drag drill, it’s important to know why it might give problems and what it is supposed to do. It isn’t what your finger is doing, it is what is going on between your shoulder and elbow that is giving problems.

Anything you ever do in swimming that puts your elbow behind your frontal plane or behind your shoulders is going to be bad if you do it enough, that’s pretty constant in every stroke every situation.

So if you are doing the fingertip drag drill, it is very important to rotate on your long axis enough so that you can do the high elbow fingertip drag aspect of it. In this one you can exaggerate the idea and suppose you rotate totally onto your side; in that case yor shoulders would be one on top of the other and you can easily see how you could do the fingertip draga and keep your elbow in front of your shoulders. That’s more than you would actually do, but it illustrates the idea.

In fact I use it to get people to rotate more and get better extension and streamlines, it encourages people to rotate onto their sides and not slow down as much in between strokes. However, the coach needs to take care to make sure the swimmer understands the purpose behind the fingertip drag so that hey don’t get the shoulder issues you can get if you do the fingertip[ drag without the commensurate hip rotation.

This is the 2nd time in two weeks this has come up actually, the other guy also didn’t understand this and had had issues.

Now, whether or not you needed that, whether or not that was a change you needed to make and work on - I have no idea.

Well you know that f*%king genius can come up to PHX every once in a bit and laugh um I mean watch you swim and try to fix it.

First off, good job at Tempe. I did the race last year where the swim was long. This year it looks as if it was correct.

But as for your swim, I believe you know the “real” answer. And it has nothing to do with what you asked, ie. set intervals and distance ramp-up. The answer is total technique focus. I mean total, full court press. And from where you are at, coaching.

I too like most have been frustrated with a lack of improvement compared to the time invested. But with hope and commitment, progress does come, albeit incrementally. There is not one swim I ever do without thinking on technque. Even in a race. This past Saturday hit the ramp in 23:30 up in Utah. For sure my best swim so far. With more improvemnt to come. And for the most part solo, with my nose in the “wind”. I couldn’t stay with the lead out, but that doesn’t bother me if the “right feet” are not in front of me. I am confident going it alone if need be. That’s where you got to be.

Yesterday went to the pool. Of course for an easy swim because I’m in recovery training for awhile. A group of swimmers who swim there on their lunch break were there. One of them who I know is the best triathlete in town. He is one of those freaks, who maybe races a Triathlon twice a year. Ex-division 1 distance freestyler out of Utah. A real freak like I said. Races Rage this past April and goes wire to wire off the front for the Overall. Anyway, I’m walking along the deck and he calls me over and gives me a few tips. Then demonstrated my stroke. All I can say is, “I splash so much on my entry”? Now I have been working for a long time on cleaning up all those types of flaws, but until someone shows you the flaw, ever so vividly, you just don’t "see"it.

Thought about it while doing my easy swimming and drills (he said do some catch-up). In my focus this year of max extension and tempo, I had become too shallow on the recovery and entry, and hence, too much turbulence and slapping going in. So the focus now will to be to come in at a 45 degree angle and then extend, smoothly to full extension.

Drag forces increase exponentially as one’s swimming pace improves. And so must one continue with technique work, even as one surpasses one’s highest expectations, of what one thought possible, say a year ago. The work must always continue in this fashion. That takes precedence over set construction.

Stick with it.