How does Indurain go from being an average climber to being able to hang with the best climbers in his era?
Greg Lemond knows!
Greg has a ton in common with Obama…they are the only two from their places in time who were not dirty as all hell…just ask either of em.
Ha ha! I completely agree. At his weight, there is no way he should have been able to outclimb the Chiappucci’s in the peloton. People continue to be gullable.
I still have the hope that LeMond was always clean. I believe he was. To support why he would have done so well would be because drugs perhaps had not hit the scene in a big way yet when he was at his top, and he also had the highest recorded VO2 max ever recorded by a Tour winner (92 ml/kg/min). In comparison, LA’s was recorded at 83.8 ml/kg/min - still high but a big difference.
**Contador had cancer and lost a bunch of weight? **
LOL. Well played.
I don’t see how it’s possible to go from so bad to one of the best.
Remember, sarcasm is in pink.
If it’s not in pink, people will think you are serious and obviously, that can’t be the case.
You are aware that maybe 80% of the feild don’t race grand tour TTs, right?
They’ll ride them to make the time cut and use the 30-55k day as an “active rest” day.
Sure there are some guys who hunt for that stage win that are out of GC contention and guys that ride splits for their GC teammates, but I’d bet that MOST of the feild is not trying to win the TT duing a stage race. No question all the GC guys put in 100% efforts.
Lars Boom comes to mind as a guy who can win a stand alone TT, but in stages races may elect to save his legs in a TT if he’s not setting splits for Menchov, so he can help Denis or chase a stage later in the race.
About 6 years ago I started reading that Contador, who was considered a great TT rider, had put up impressive training numbers. I said at that time that he’d be the next bigmig.
I was wrong, he’ll be better.
-SD
Not only that, SuperDave, but there is also the matter of development into great TT prowess, particularly for grand tour stage race TTs. Cancellara did not come out of the gate as the best in the world. Nor did any of the other great TT guys. The fact that Big Mig stomped the young Lance Armstrong is not too surprising.
Great grand tour riders are built over years. Some have to develop the climbing skills. Others have to develop their TT ability. Sastre may not be the strongest TT guy ever, but he would never have won the TdF without some significant work on his TT skills.
Hull, you can hold onto the belief LeMond was clean. I raced against him and the other big names of that era. Never saw or heard of anything bad with him. They were just that good. I can remember a race in Atlanta where he and Grewal were like sharkes swimming in the pack. They would move from the front to the back and back to the front without breathing hard. Just head and shoulders above the normal human.
Thanks for that news! He was someone I idolized when I was in my teens. Contrary to many on here, I had even more respect for him for challenging LA the way he did. Takes guts to go against the media and popular opinion. I would love to meet him one day.
Sorry for turning this away from a Contador thread.
It also amazes me how people will think Lemond went against LA because of some form of jealousy. When I look at this picture, I see a man in full support of LA - unfortunately, like many others, he was disappointed to hear the mountain of evidence against LA.
To shed this light back onto Contador for the purposes of this thread, I would not be surprised to see him doped to the gills - it’s only that he is not American so he does not get as many people wanting to take him down. What I mean is that an American cyclist generates a lot of media and public interest when they are at the top. Unfortunately there is also many people that get joy out of viewing the rise and fall of celebrities. I don’t quite get it. In my case, it is just looking at all the evidence and when you assemble it all, it points to guilt beyond responsible doubt for me. What angers me about LA is that I put him in the same category as George Bush. Even the mildly intelligent know that Iraq was about oil, but he would always package it as a service to world peace. I feel LA is also playing the public as idiots in the same way. Afterall, he has done so much for cancer research so he could not possibly be a cheat. Marketing be association - this is old school and still works wonders.
Enough dribble from me. Over and out.
Y’know SD, I think you probably need to be even more explicit. Folks just don’t get it…
CONTADOR IS NOT A CLIMBER WHO LEARNED TO TT, HE’S A TT RIDER WHO LEARNED TO CLIMB! HIS FIRST PRO WIN WAS A TT!! HE MADE HIS BONES PRE-PRO DEBUT AS A TT RIDER! EVERYONE KNEW HE WOULD BE A GREAT TT RIDER AS A PRO, VERY FEW EXPECTED HIM TO BE THE CLIMBER HE TURNED OUT TO BE! ENOUGH ALREADY, MY THROAT IS GETTING SORE!
Back to our regularly scheduled inanity…
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Not true actually.
Ullrich is a pretty good counter example. If Lance hadn’t come back from Cancer, Ullrich would have a bunch of TdFs rather than ‘just’ one. He was a fantastic TT rider, right away. 2nd overall in his first tour, 1st in his second.
Fignon won his first TdF, and was a great TTer right away.
Bernard Hinault also won his first TdF. Actually he did the Vuelta to get ready for his first TdF and won the Vuelta in the process.
Not true actually.
Ullrich would have a bunch of TdFs rather than ‘just’ one. He was a fantastic TT rider, right away. 2nd overall in his first tour, 1st in his second.
No question Lance’s rise bumped Ullrich down a spot, but to say he would have won a bunch of TdFs is a real stretch. 1998? Coast years?
When Lance’s team would drop the hammer and blow the feild to pieces BEFORE the climbs the deck was reshuffled. Jan’s race never included those tactics and I think without Lance’s efforts and his team, Ullrich’s rivals would have had more ammo.
Just like this year, when I think that Andy is going to help Alberto and hurt Lance. Having Saxo play to Andy’s strengths also helps AC.
**Thanks for that news! He was someone I idolized when I was in my teens. Contrary to many on here, I had even more respect for him for challenging LA the way he did. Takes guts to go against the media and popular opinion. I would love to meet him one day. **
x2
The point of my post was not really how many Tours Jan would have won without Lance around, but anyway, I think the bigger stretch is to assume that it’s not the eternal #2 behind Lance who would have won, without the presence of Lance.
Maybe race dynamics would have prevented Jan to win one or two of those where he came second, but he would have won a bunch, yes, and it’s hardly a stretch.
He would have won at least one more had he not been forced to let Riis win.
That has been discussed a lot. He took 2.18 back in the last TT on Riis and worked all the race for him. Fully possible.
**Guess what was Contador’s first professional win… **
By the way, he won the prologue of the dauphine libere, and got beaten pretty badly in the TT yesterday.
Mountain time trial.
The point of my post was not really how many Tours Jan would have won without Lance around, but anyway, I think the bigger stretch is to assume that it’s not the eternal #2 behind Lance who would have won, without the presence of Lance.
Maybe race dynamics would have prevented Jan to win one or two of those where he came second, but he would have won a bunch, yes, and it’s hardly a stretch.
That’s like saying Boonen would have won Flanders w/o Fabian there…
So where does Teejay fit in? Guy rides pretty good for 21 years young.
Hes older than that, railed some 2.2s and won stages at l’avenier on rabo continental, absurdly talented rider, just lived in the Netherlands full time for most of his career so not too well known in the states, tragically.