I think the real problem is that in a race of upwards of 2,000 people - particularly in Kona, where the level of ability is considerably even - that it is impossible for even the most consciously obedient person to avoid being in a penalty situation a couple of times during the ride.
I got a penalty even though I really tried to avoid them and probably did so because i was getting out of the way of an overtaking rider, while I was passing a guy who had stepped on it when he saw me coming (so therefore was taking longer to pass as he was speeding up.) I would be either drafting or blocking…
The penalty was a judgement call, IMO, becuase the situation was clearly one that developed throught the action of others and which should have been seen occurring by the ref.
I also feel that the woman who gave it to me was “looking” to give one out, since it was pretty soon after the “drafting legal” section through town.
To add insult to injury, I had to spend the next 95 miles really worried about a penalty, so that when ever I passed one or more people, and then came up on someone I wasn’t ready to pass, I had to slow down to be extra careful. At that point, the people who I had just passed - who had gotten a little boost from my draft and/or who pushed the pedals harder in reaction to being passed - came up upon me and passed me back as I slowed down…
Add to that the inequity of seeing lots of determined drafters without the “red slash”, and one really wonders of the fairness of the sport.
While I know that it is pretty hard to figure out, I think the refs should have some sort of verbal warning system when the see the non-intentional drafting that is caused by situations. Also, it seems there are plenty of places in every IM where drafting is “legal” since they cannot police roads that are too congested. More communication and warnings would be a good start in creating a more fair race. Just saying that we gave out X number of penalties doesn’t seem to make much of a difference in the fairness of the race.
Drafting is legal in an IM. You just have to stay 10 meters back. In a headwind setting, that 10 meters is worth 15-20 watts.
But, by all accounts, the officiating at Kona was a bit nit-picky at times. People getting tagged on slow, standing climbs. Getting tagged at aid stations for bunching up, etc.
well, I was in Kona as well, and I saw several draft marshals who would come up to someone who was riding on the left ( near the center line), or a few riders who were riding pretty close together, and they were giving them warnings, telling them to ’ break it up’, get to the right, etc…
although, did see one peleton-style pack of about 10 guys come screaming by around mile 60 of the bike, rotating, going pretty fast, picking up riders, and then one of them went down hard, his bike and body scattering across almost both lines of the road- looked like someone else ran over him, and his wheel, pretty scary actually - a bunch of us had to swerve to the outside of the left lane to avoid the carnage. he got up, but can’t imagine he finished…
maybe he should have practiced riding in a pack if he planned on doing so in the race, eh?
The only place where drafting cannot be avoided in Kona is the first stretch out and back along Kuakini. Other than that it is really easy. I got passed a few times by big packs and every time one rolled up on me I just moved way over onto the huge paved shoulder out of their draft and let them pass. A big pack (especially last weekend when the winds made it hard for cyclists of lesser ability) will not form unless a few people decide to hop on the wheel of someone going by them. I was warned to accept the big packs but my main goal at Hawaii was to compete fairly to measure my personal goals so I wasn’t about to get caught up in any of that crap. I feel for you if you were trying to overtake someone that sped up and got a penalty. This could easily have been the case based on the shifting winds where someone could be slowing down fighting the wind and then hear you coming and decide to pick it up again.
I live on Oahu, and was at the race last week watching it (I did Great Floridian this last weekend :-), and I’ve done it a few times myself. I didn’t see that many people out on the Queen K. trying to draft. Rather, it was as you said, with people of differing abilities getting caught up momentarily in a pack.
I didn’t have time to check, but out of curiosity, what was the numbers of European and Japanese racers getting tagged with a drafting call versus the rest of the nationalities and Americans, in particular? We’re pretty picky about here in the States, that’s for sure.
Also, the head ref at Kona is usually really, really picky about it, and consequently his other referees get their marching orders and are really on the lookout for drafting and violation of that stagger rule thing.
"…while I was passing a guy who had stepped on it when he saw me coming (so therefore was taking longer to pass as he was speeding up.) "
The rules give you 15sec to fully execute your pass. Period. Nothing says the person you are attempting to pass has to roll over and let it happen. If an official observes you out in the left lane for more than 15sec without completing your pass…guess what? You are penalized. If you see that your pass will not be unsuccessful, drop back out of the zone and regroup. There is no provision for this in the rules, but some officials might cut you some slack. Staying side by side without passing, though, is just an invitation to a penalty. If you do manage to execute your pass in the allotted time and the person you pass continues to challenge, without first dropping out of the zone, they are asking to be penalized. It is then their responsibility to drop all the way back before attempting to repass you, regardless of whether you slow down or not. These are probably the most common penalties in nearly every race, yet I hear them explained at nearly every prerace meeting I’ve attended.
You only quoted half the sentence; in my case it was either be called for drafting or for blocking, so instead of moving through quickly, I moved back and was in the zone longer. All of which would/should have been seen by the marshal.
The point being (per the thread title) that when there are so many people on the race course, it is impossible to get everyone to all spread out that much.
At times you have 200 finishing the swim per minute…so if they all went the same speed on the bike, you’d stretch out the bike line by almost a mile…but if it only takes 3 minutes to ride a mile (@ 20 MPH)…and if the guy who just passed you slows slightly, then everyone (199 people) has to slow…or everyone (199 people) has to speed up…not to mention what this does to the people who came out of the swim in the next minute, since the “first of the next” would have to wait 3 minutes to start riding since he/she wouldn’t want to draft…
Now I get it, the reason they didn’t call drafting in the first 8 miles was because it is impossible not to!
Traffic and a mixing of people on a narrow road at times forces you into a situation when you are drafting. As you said in a race with 2000+ people, it will happen.
Offcials can’t be everywhere on a 112 mile course with athletes sprad out over several hours on that course.
Part of the problem is that the bike leg of a triathlon is this werid hybrid of cycling that many don’t understand and almost no one practices. What is it? Is it an ITT? Well, no not really. Is it a bike race? Well, no not really? Are you racing head to head? Yes and no. Who ever goes out on group ride and keeps their ride partners 7 metres in front and arrears? Few that I know. So it’s a somewhat bizarre situation to begin with.
Solutions: It’s a problem that’s as old as the sport and it’s getting worse and worse. There are no easy solutions if people want and demand absolute draft free racing. If they do, go to a race that has less than 100 people in it and you may get that. I recall racing the Vineman triathlon back in the early years and I rode an almost totally solo 112 mile bike leg. If not for the aid stations I would have thought I was off course. I think the year I did it, there was about 200 people entered.
that’s easy, just be a crappy swimmer and a strong biker! all you ever do is pass people with a good head of steam. if you’re good enough on the bike you’ll catch up to some open space were everyone is your speed and you will have a little elbow room.
i kind of feel sorry for the average speed “good guy” that doesn’t want to draft in these packed races. it can be tough to be clean without having to hold back a little on your pace.
i think the best answer is smaller waves, staggered further apart but i don’t think that will ever happen.
Yeah, I did notice that if you want to pass one, you might as well push and pass them all…since there is usually a series of 10 or 20 you can leap-frog through…(or get leap frogged…)
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“that’s easy, just be a crappy swimmer and a strong biker!”
Actually this is a great scenerio. If you know what you are doing and you are a very strong cyclist, you can, depending on how much traffic there is on the road really take advantage of the situation my riding right up behind people and then passing within 15 seconds. You can keep doing this, pac-man style as you move through the field. I have seen it happen and have done it myself. I have even had race offcials compliment me on it! It’s perfectly legal, but you do run the risk of getting nailed for drafting by an overzealous offcial who can’t count to 15 or can’t tell the difference between 7m and 8m while bumping along on thr back of a motocycle at 40km/h!
“that’s easy, just be a crappy swimmer and a strong biker!”
Actually this is a great scenerio. If you know what you are doing and you are a very strong cyclist, you can, depending on how much traffic there is on the road really take advantage of the situation my riding right up behind people and then passing within 15 seconds.
Ah…you both have found my secret plan for IMFL domination! Er…well maybe not. But I do plan on getting out of the water in about 1:20 and then passing half the field on the bike en route to a 21-22mph average. Too bad I’ll be running a 10 minute pace after that. Damn piriformis muscles.
Regarding the drafting, I don’t think it is possible with 2000 people out there to totally avoid it. I have been bunched up behind packs all trying to get around each other, since some of the fastest swimmers are not the fastest bikers. Some people go through T1 really fast, some take 10 minutes. It usually is all sorted out after the first 10-20 miles on a full IM, as the really slow and really fast spread out enough so it isn’t a big deal to avoid serious drafting. The only thing that really annoys me are people who cruise past at just barely fast enough, then slow down once they get in front.
Age group wave starts to break up the field. I hate drafting and avoid it like the plaque but I had 700 riders in front of me at the begining of the bike at Kona and the first 10 miles through town were ridiculously crowded and dangerous. There was no way you could avoid drafting in this section because you had slow riders bunched together on the right and fast riders passing on the left without much room for a third rider. Out in the lava fields riders spread out after about another 10 miles and several penalities to riders in massive packs. Without the penalities these intentional cheaters would have continued their tour de france style race all the way back to Kona and would have missed the great feeling of accomplishment one gets from having to pedal downhill into a head wind at about 15 mph.
My own variations of questions about drafting have left me vexed for a long time. Some good points from abouve. Here’s my .02 worth:
Most people try to not draft. In a field of 2,000 that means at lest 1,001 are conciously doing the right thing and as many as 999 are doing the wrong thing.
I have heard it said many times that “drafting is only illegal if you get caught.” Bull @#$%!!! If you want to draft, race ITU. If you want to prove (to yourself or anyone else) that you are a good endurance athlete, then do the distance without the support of drafting.
Someone mentioned a difference between races/racers in the USA and races/racers outside the USA. I believe that Americans, for the most part, follow the rules while non-Americans generaly do all they can to break the rules. I could give numerous examples of this but the best one was durring this years’ South Africa Half IM. I was catching a “pace-line” (going up-hill) that had blown by me on the flat. Over the hill and along the next flat I saw them changing out a front ridder every minute or so. They all had the same outfits on (A cycle club from Cape Town). But the worst part was that the entire line was drafting off of Fernanda Keller!! They sat off her wheel long enough for me to start passing them. And then, of course, they overtook me.
My answer to your question of how can one NOT draft in an IM is this: do the race as legaly as you can. If you still get tagge with a penalty you either do not know the difference between right and wrong, or the reff used bad judgement.
On a more peosonal note, I was given a poenalty this season (the first of my careere). When I questioned the reff about the call he said that he probably would not have given it if I had not drawn attention to myself. I asked him to elaborate or advise me on how to avoid the spotlight. He responded by saying, “Don’t be so fast. Slow down.” WTF!?! It’s a RACE!?! That penalty bumped me from a first place finish to 4th.
Damn piriformis muscles.