Have a P3SL with tubular HED3C wheels 19mm conti comp tires, dura-ace components from 2005. Would like to get a power meter for racing, also need new aero bars.
How can I cost effectively improve the speed of this set up?
I have aero-helmet.
Position is dialed in. Although considering going to shorter cranks (i.e. 165mm).
How much drag am I giving up with this frame compared to the new Shiv? What would the time be over an IM distance course.
Thanks
Cheapest speed you can get out of that setup is to replace those tires with something faster.
A pict would help
jaretj
the p3 aluminum is about 100 grams of drag slower than the shiv, which would translate to about 3 minutes on an IM course.
since you are using tubies, you can get a nice speed and comfort gain by switching to a tubular tire that uses a latex inner tube instead of butyl. zipp tangente 20mm or something like that.
you could also swap the rear H3 with a disc for a small gain.
aerobars are also critical, be sure they are fast ones, with cables routed cleanly.
Any aerobar suggestions? Also, what is your take on the praying mantis position versus parallel or slight upward angle?
100 grams…that’s all??
Are you drawing this conclusion from the Cervelo P4 wind tunnel comparisons, and making an assumption based on Cervelo’s claims of the P3SL the same as a P2C?
3 minutes over 112 miles seems tiny for such a big $$ investment.
Any aerobar suggestions? Also, what is your take on the praying mantis position versus parallel or slight upward angle?
money no object? ventus or USE Tula
otherwise, the original uci-illegal vision aluminum with vision brakes
yep, arrived at the conclusion exactly as you described.
p4 is around the same as a shiv, p3 aluminum is around the same as a p2c, so its a little over 100 grams of drag.
3 minutes here, 3 minutes there…
pretty soon its 13 minutes 
100 grams…that’s all??
Are you drawing this conclusion from the Cervelo P4 wind tunnel comparisons, and making an assumption based on Cervelo’s claims of the P3SL the same as a P2C?
3 minutes over 112 miles seems tiny for such a big $$ investment.
Sell the H3 rear and get a powertap on a training wheel with a cover for racing.
more threshold work and improving handling (esp. corners/descents/u-turns)
total cost= $0
if you decide to go the powerap on a training rim + disc cover for races, let me know. I have a Deep V rim and disc cover for deepV+powertap hangin out in the garage that id like to get rid of. you’d just need to get ahold of the hub, spokes and a wheel builder. PM me if interested
more threshold work and improving handling (esp. corners/descents/u-turns)
total cost= $0
if you decide to go the powerap on a training rim + disc cover for races, let me know. I have a Deep V rim and disc cover for deepV+powertap hangin out in the garage that id like to get rid of. you’d just need to get ahold of the hub, spokes and a wheel builder. PM me if interested
Yep.
Here is the secret to going faster: Working harder! I know its kind of unconventional, but I’ve heard a few success stories of hard work paying off.
Eat less (and better), train more (and targetted.)
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Here is the secret to going faster: Working harder! I know its kind of unconventional, but I’ve heard a few success stories of hard work paying off.
I agree with this. The OP has a really nice rig, so I don’t know if I would go changing much. I would work on upgrading the engine. Unless you’re able to ride in the big gear and the small cog all the time, you can still make gains there.
No offense, but that wasn’t my question. Are you going to tell Crowie or other riders, don’t worry about upgrading your equipment just train harder to go faster.
Come on even good pros, look to improve their speed with equipment choices.
Now I don’t have unlimited funds, nor do I have the time that pros have to train, but I can certainly ask for suggestions regarding equipment that will improve my speed for the amount of watts I can produce.
It goes with out saying the optimizing training can make you go faster, but even if you have peaked at your optimum training, you can still get faster with intelligent equipment choices.
That is what I am asking.
Your answer is quite frankly lame.
center pull front brake ~12 seconds per 40k
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Your answer is quite frankly lame.
Train more.
Since you are eager to chime in.
What kind of workout would you prescribe to get faster?
Thanks.
No offense, but that wasn’t my question. Are you going to tell Crowie or other riders, don’t worry about upgrading your equipment just train harder to go faster.
Come on even good pros, look to improve their speed with equipment choices.
Now I don’t have unlimited funds, nor do I have the time that pros have to train, but I can certainly ask for suggestions regarding equipment that will improve my speed for the amount of watts I can produce.
It goes with out saying the optimizing training can make you go faster, but even if you have peaked at your optimum training, you can still get faster with intelligent equipment choices.
That is what I am asking.
Your answer is quite frankly lame.
Are you riding as fast as Crowie?
I doubt you have reached your peak. If you would like serious suggestions on how to train to get faster, I would be happy to help. What is your current level of fitness, what are your bike splits, how long have you been riding, what does your current training look like, do you ride with a cadence meter?
Regardless of whether I reached my peak or not, optimizing equipment is independent from training. That is I can get faster at the same level of fitness, by simply making better equipment choices. Hence, the topic of my post, was how can I get this faster, and the described my equipment. I didn’t ask how can I get faster, which could imply both training and equipment as the topic of my thread. To be clear, the purpose of this thread was to seek help on equipment choices.
And for those who chimed in saying training is free. It is not free. Extra time training, either means less time at work which has both pecuniary and nonpecuniary costs, or it means less time from my family, which has noticeable nonpecuniary costs attached to it.
I enjoy spending time with my family and participating in their activities. Since I only do this as a hobby and to stay reasonably fit, I am at my max in terms of hours spent training.
As for what I do training, I do 3 workout a week for each sport, except in the last week when I recently injured my foot
Running and bike workouts are 1 day of intervals, 1 day of LT, 1 day of slightly greater than race pace.
Swim workout are with a masters team. So I do what the coach says to do.
I enjoy spending time with my family and participating in their activities. Since I only do this as a hobby and to stay reasonably fit, I am at my max in terms of hours spent training.
As for what I do training, I do 3 workout a week for each sport, except in the last week when I recently injured my foot
Running and bike workouts are 1 day of intervals, 1 day of LT, 1 day of slightly greater than race pace.
Swim workout are with a masters team. So I do what the coach says to do.
I would posit that you may be at your max in terms of hours, but there is a lot of optimization OF that time that I think you could be doing. Your description reminds me of a coach on here that stated most triathletes aren’t going hard enough on their hard days, and not easy enough on their easy days. You appear to have NO easy days.
So maybe not train more, but train more intelligently.
John
Depending upon your fitness and skill level I think what the “train more” guys were getting at was that you likely can make more substantial gains by training as opposed to equipment upgrades beyond what you have. This would be either train more or train differently. Don’t recall if you stated whether you have a coach for cycling or not but with limited time to put into training, a good all around coach will help to maximize your efforts to achieve the greatest results.
But I hear you, I’m a gear junkie and if I can afford it I will buy it - there is lots to buy. I know that what I’m buying may make very little change, if any at all, but I will feel better with the change. And sometimes “feeling better” translates into faster time.