When I wear zoomed I can get across the pool in reasonable fashion.
When I take them off, though…holy cow. Big effort and its takes me about 2:15 for 50 yds. I feel like I have no momentum. If I stop kicking all out for even a second I stop dead in the water.
Now, I’ve only seriously given thought to kicking for about 6 months. So perhaps I still have things to learn.
Is that normal?
Chances are you legs and hips are sinking…I understand this problem since its mine. Can you get someone to film you, even if its above water and post it then all the fishies here can make their recommendations.
perhaps I still have things to learn.
Perhaps.
Is that normal?
Is what normal? It is normal to swim slower without fins than with. It isn’t normal to need 2:15 to go 50 yards. that’s 4:30 per 100.
If I stop kicking all out for even a second I stop dead in the water.
That tells me that the problem isn’t your kick, it’s body position and pull. You should be able to move forward reasonably well without kicking at all. Well, you probably have issues with your kick too, but that’s not what is causing the symptoms you describe here.
…2:15 for 50 yds.
…
I feel like I have no momentum…
It’s more than a feeling; the numbers match the feeling
So perhaps I still have things to learn.
Yes you do.
Swimming is hard. I get it. I’m there with you as well.
I would tend to agree it’s likely not just your kicking. My kicking sucks, but I’m killing you in the swim on time.
Have you ever tried using a pull buoy and just working your arms and seeing how those are working. If your legs/hips are sinking this will help give them some float and allow you to work on your arms.
Check your finger placement as well.
Whoops. I should have clarified. I was referring to kick sets only.
When I’m swimming I can swim 1:30 - 1:40 per 100. Kick with zoomers, with a kickboard, is just under 1:00 per 50. Kick without zoomers drops to 2:15 per 50.
First let’s clarify: i assume you are talking about kicking with a board?
I have seen this a few times - reasonably competent swimmers who really struggle with kick sets. I worked with a guy who was a :55 100 freestyler but couldn’t kick a 50 under 1:30
The problem was his weight it is distributed awkwardly over the board which resulted in a really low body position. This in turn compounded his primary kick issue: he kicks from the knees not the hips. I don’t know if you can envision tthis but basically his knees were 6-8 inches below the surface and he was just churning water. We did all sorts of things: 2 boards, 1 arm on board 1 arm in the side. Nothing worked.
My suggestion: kick on your back with zoomers ( or without if you can). I love the kick board. But it’s just a tool…
That makes a little more sense 
do more kick without the zoomers. think about feeling the water on the tops of your feet, you want pressure there. do not keep your knees locked, but also do not bicycle kick. Ideally, you want your body to be as straight line from your head to your knees. point your toes, it can also help to rotate your feet inwards. That flattens the tops of your feet so you are generating more power forward. eg if you are sitting on the floor with legs outstretched rotate your legs so your toes move towards each other.
A lot of folks will argue with me about the keeping the knees locked. Well, I have science on my side. Watch Grant Hackett’s kick here…http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6qIhkuzTx0#t=54 His knees bend up to about 45*
That said, it is really easy to let that devolve into a bicycle kick, so you may find it better to start with making sure your legs are straight for the kick, and later on move to adding a “looser” more fluid technique.
Yeah - thought so ( kick sets)
.
Yes - kicking with a board.
I’ve been dabbling with kicking on my back. Arms at my side was more comfortable for a while, but I’m getting to be able to keep them over my head, now. Zoomers make things much much better, but the change isn’t as dramatic as when I’m on my stomach using a board.
I think my legs are sinking something fierce. At the start of one of my kick sets (on my back), my foot actually hit the bottom of the pool.
are your heels bubbling the surface on a kick set?
Also, it sounds like you might be shortarming the board on the kick set. You should be holding a pretty tight streamline position on the board, the board is only there to hold you up a little bit so you can breathe.
When I first started swimming, I was horrendous. Like, 2:30 per 100. A swim instructor (who happened to just be standing by watching me swim) told me that my kick was my problem, and that I should lock my knees and not point my feet (let them flop to create more “snap”).
I had maybe 1,000 things wrong with my stroke, but that’s what this woman picked up on. It’s also what I focused on for about a year before I decided to get some real help.
The habit that it created: I kick with locked knees and my toes point to the bottom of the pool, which, I realize, isn’t ideal. I will need to really focus on pointing those toes.
and that I should lock my knees and not point my feet (let them flop to create more “snap”).
…facepalm gif goes here…
Not pointing your feet works fine if you are blessed / cursed with a lot of ankle flexibility and your feet naturally point themselves anyway. If you aren’t, they you have to work at it.
Oh man, I’ve been so led astray.
My ankles are the opposite of flexible.
You may have just shaved seconds off my swim times.
Thanks!
Hopefully I helped you save at least 10 seconds in your next IM swim.
Are you an adult onset swimmer? If you come to swimming from running (as I did) your ankles may not be flexible. 2:15 for 50 is slow but at least you are moving forward. When I started, I actually went backwards when kicking.
Oh man, I’ve been so led astray.
My ankles are the opposite of flexible.
You may have just shaved seconds off my swim times.
Thanks!
Working on your ankle flexibility will be one of the best things you can do. Kneel on your feet, partner stretches and kicking with zoomers.
Also, you can do dryland straight leg flutter kicks for practice, that will help ingrain the kick from the hips rather than the knees. Ideally you want a small “wave” so to speak originating from the hips, slight bend/snap all the way through the toes. If you can easily point your toes and draw a straight line (with no bend) from your knee to your toes, then you’re in a good kicking position.
John
USA Swimming technique coach Russel Mark has a great video on freestyle kick technique.
Watch the first 20 minutes. I found the section at 13:20 very enlightening. The difference between a weak kick and a strong kick is explained right there.
Oh man, I’ve been so led astray.
My ankles are the opposite of flexible.
You may have just shaved seconds off my swim times.
Thanks!
Working on your ankle flexibility will be one of the best things you can do. Kneel on your feet, partner stretches and kicking with zoomers.
Also, you can do dryland straight leg flutter kicks for practice, that will help ingrain the kick from the hips rather than the knees. Ideally you want a small “wave” so to speak originating from the hips, slight bend/snap all the way through the toes. If you can easily point your toes and draw a straight line (with no bend) from your knee to your toes, then you’re in a good kicking position.
Speaking as a life-long swimmer (swam my first 25 at age 5) who’s never been a good kicker except breaststroke kick, I have found that getting this “snap” is the hardest thing. My hips just are not loose enough to “snap” the way the really good kickers do. My toe point is decent but I haven’t been able to master this “snap” of the hips. I can do it somewhat in fly because it’s both legs at same time but on flutter kick on free/back the snap just does not want to come. There’s just always something to work on in the pool, but thankfully I can pull pretty well:)
I have a pretty decent kick (the other day I did 0:34 for a 50 SCM with board). That wave analogy is pretty spot on, IMO.
One thing I usually do is to start warmup I’ll do extremely long, slow, underwater dolphin kick (around 20 m per underwater) just to loosen up and feel the water, maybe 2 lengths of that before going into a regular swim. You want to get it as close to feeling like that wave from fingertips to toes as you can.