Even if nothing you listed would be happening in the Western world China would just told them all to fuck off and not mess with China’s internal stuff. And everybody would just fuck off because, do you wan’t cheap electronics etc or not?
I was at the Tienanmen commemoration on Thursday and the march on Sunday, but not the activities on Wednesday.
Yeah, it’s disturbing.
It would be good to have a working US government right now that couldn’t be so easily purchased.
I’m not that optimistic. HK becomes just another Chinese city in 2047, and yeah, it seems possible that even before then things will be more or less indistinguishable.
That said, I’m glad to see HK people standing up for themselves. I was worried HK would go down without a fight. Now I’m less afraid of that.
**That said, I’m glad to see HK people standing up for themselves. I was worried HK would go down without a fight. Now I’m less afraid of that. **
It is shameful that the West seems go have lost their interest in coming to the aid of countries being bullied. I’m not sure of anything the U.S administration stands for anymore and the other Western countries seem far more interested in getting trade deals and appeasing China. The people in HK are the ones standing up for what they believe as the Western countries cower in their corners.
**That said, I’m glad to see HK people standing up for themselves. I was worried HK would go down without a fight. Now I’m less afraid of that. **
It is shameful that the West seems go have lost their interest in coming to the aid of countries being bullied. I’m not sure of anything the U.S administration stands for anymore and the other Western countries seem far more interested in getting trade deals and appeasing China. The people in HK are the ones standing up for what they believe as the Western countries cower in their corners.
It is a shame. Its a real authentic and justified protest, standing against China. I guess the west does not fear their interest’s in HK will be compromised. IDK
It is shameful that the West seems go have lost their interest in coming to the aid of countries being bullied. I’m not sure of anything the U.S administration stands for anymore and the other Western countries seem far more interested in getting trade deals and appeasing China. The people in HK are the ones standing up for what they believe as the Western countries cower in their corners.
This is more than coming to the aid of someone getting bullied, I think. It’s about how much the West believes in and its will to defend collectively the liberal democracy we fought so hard and shed so much blood to gain. Ukraine yesterday, Hong Kong today, next up, Taiwan?
I’m not sure of anything the U.S administration stands for anymore and the other Western countries seem far more interested in getting trade deals and appeasing China.
China’s figured out that it can buy its way into being a world power, and once it does that, the totalitarianism doesn’t matter to the rest of the world.
The situation seems to have deteriorated quick bit in the last a few days and violence has escalated.
I feel for the HK people: there is no one will come to their aid, and the Chinese will simply roll them over.
The Brits are the most logical ones to help here, but they can’t get their own house together with the Tory election and Brexit.
The current US administration has no moral authority internationally nor the interests with their America First priority.
Other western powers, e.g. France and Germany, all have their own domestic problems and really can’t do much without an unified front.
This will not end well, I am afraid.
Probably time to bump this thread unless there’s been an intervening one I missed. There are now reports of a major military build-up in Shenzen. Is it posturing? Who knows, but the two outcomes currently appear to be a gradual dissipation of anger and winding down of the protests and the PRC army invading Hong Kong.
I asked a few of my Chinese colleagues there what they thought of the HK situation.
They replied “what situation”? They were not aware of the protests and clashes going on. No idea what I was talking about. These are all professional educated white collar people in a very large global corporation.
I then explained to them what was going on and what the it was about. While I’m sure there is a lot of general news on the topic blocked by China, everyone knows what the internet is and would assume people use VPNs there.
They replied to me that the perspective for most people in China, was that their loyalties and interests was at the Province level, not big China Republic level. So everyday people were not really concerned what big China was doing with that small island of Hong Kong. That’s their business. Who cares.
Just giving some feedback from my n=3 experience from some China colleagues last month while I was in-country.
Someone should ask trump if he still believes that China did the right thing by killing all those peaceful demonstrators in Tienanmen Square, actually don’t ask him, we don’t need to give China any more encouragement.
The situation seems to have deteriorated quick bit in the last a few days and violence has escalated.
I feel for the HK people: there is no one will come to their aid, and the Chinese will simply roll them over.
The Brits are the most logical ones to help here, but they can’t get their own house together with the Tory election and Brexit.
The current US administration has no moral authority internationally nor the interests with their America First priority.
Other western powers, e.g. France and Germany, all have their own domestic problems and really can’t do much without an unified front.
This will not end well, I am afraid.
Probably time to bump this thread unless there’s been an intervening one I missed. There are now reports of a major military build-up in Shenzen. Is it posturing? Who knows, but the two outcomes currently appear to be a gradual dissipation of anger and winding down of the protests and the PRC army invading Hong Kong.
I flew out of Hong Kong on Sunday morning connecting from Jakarta to Seattle. You would not have known anything was going on from within the confines of the international terminal, but that was just before they started cancelling flights. Lucky I wasn’t a day or two later.
I am not surprised. There is a general amnesia in China these days politically. It’s also one of my fears that the situation in HK will not end well.
The HK protest started out about the extradition bill. After the government pulled the bill (but not entirely withdrawn), the protests continued. So I think the extradition bill was the tipping point to a bigger problem at play: the fear of HK being mainland-ed in the near future. That’s why now the demand of the protest movement is “free election” and no Beijing handpicking the government. That’s never going to happen to the current regime in China. I never really thought “one country, two systems” could ever work because it will eventually pit your loyalty to a country against your loyalty to a system, and that’s what happening to these young people in HK - they are loyal to a system.
What I am worried about is that any hesitation on the part of Chinese government cracking down on HK is proportional to the value of HK (as a banking and capital center of Asia) to the regime. If the protest movement is damaging HK’s economy, at some point, when banks and capitals flee HK, then the Chinese regime will no qualm on cracking down just like they did back in 1989. I hope the protest movement leadership (I hope there is one) figures out a strategy to find an end to this. They already achieved a lot, and made clear to China what HK people want.
I am not surprised. There is a general amnesia in China these days politically. It’s also one of my fears that the situation in HK will not end well.
The HK protest started out about the extradition bill. After the government pulled the bill (but not entirely withdrawn), the protests continued. So I think the extradition bill was the tipping point to a bigger problem at play: the fear of HK being mainland-ed in the near future. That’s why now the demand of the protest movement is “free election” and no Beijing handpicking the government. That’s never going to happen to the current regime in China. I never really thought “one country, two systems” could ever work because it will eventually pit your loyalty to a country against your loyalty to a system, and that’s what happening to these young people in HK - they are loyal to a system.
What I am worried about is that any hesitation on the part of Chinese government cracking down on HK is proportional to the value of HK (as a banking and capital center of Asia) to the regime. If the protest movement is damaging HK’s economy, at some point, when banks and capitals flee HK, then the Chinese regime will no qualm on cracking down just like they did back in 1989. I hope the protest movement leadership (I hope there is one) figures out a strategy to find an end to this. They already achieved a lot, and made clear to China what HK people want.
I agree with 90% of this except that (1) by all accounts the movement does not have a coherent leadsership and (2) I’m not sure what they’ve achieved to date. I think they should back down, but only because it’s better for them individually than the alternative. If they do though that’ll be the immediate end of the two systems system.
I have one acquaintance there now, protesting. He’s kind of a weird hot headed dude but his last FB post was “Go ahead, send your tanks, motherf*ckers.” I’m worried.
There are some parallels to the 1989 Tiananmen movement. Knowing when to back down is always tricky, and require organization and leadership. There will always be elements within these movements that are radical and want to keep going, but I have some faith in the people of HK. I also know how unpredictable these organic protest movement can get out of hand quickly.